First pond.... lots of questions

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Okay everyone, im looking at maybe getting some advice on some things. I have always wanted a water feature in my back yard and last fall I finally started one. Im happy the way it is turning out but have a few questions on the amount of filtration I need, and how to plumb that filtration. The pond will go in the corner of my yard and will form a triangle of some sort. Because of size restraints and the way my deck is positioned Ive decided to make my waterfall out of cribbing and then rock in the cribbing after to make the waterfall more vertical, therefore taking up less space. I want to put a biological filter burried in the waterfall, a skimmer on one side of the pond, and a bottom drain in as well.

The question Im having trouble with is how to plumb in the bottom drain. Originally I was happy with just the two filters and was going to hook the bottom drain to the skimmer, skimmer to the waterfall. The more research I do the more I dont want to connect the skimmer and bottom drain together because it may turn into a nightmare. Im strapped for space and am not sure where to put another filter. One last resort would be to take about 2 more feet of grass out and make the pond even bigger. What should I do with filters for this setup? is there a way to build a sand/gravel filter and then bury it in the waterfall in place of the bio filter/spillway? Im figuring the pond will be around 2800 gal, and only intend on putting gold fish in it when its done.
 

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Looking good.

For what it's worth...

Filters are directly related to fish load and more specifically the amount of food you feed them. For 99% of water gardens like yours no filter is required. I should say additional filter. Your waterfall/stream is a filter. And it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 to 30 times more efficient than any submerged media filter for converting ammonia (fish waste). The wall of the pond also acts as a filter, meaning a place for ammonia converting bacteria to grow.

So unless you're planning of adding hundreds of large goldfish on day one I wouldn't worry about filters. People will say "yeah, but goldfish grow and reproduce so you'll need filters". Ask them how big a filter? They have no way of knowing. If you feed 100 goldfish 1 oz of food a week you'll measure no ammonia. No ammonia means no additional filter is needed. If you instead feed 2 lbs of food a week you may measure ammonia and additional filters would be needed.

I most commonly read people want to be "safe". There is one and only one way to be "safe" and that is to measure ammonia occasionally, or more often when a big change is made. To think adding a filter is somehow "safe" is misleading.

After ammonia the next biggest concern is green water. Simple 100% effective solution, UV filter. Properly sized to your pond and pump. Not a combo filter/UV, the filter part is worthless. Maybe a nice 25 watt deal for a around $200. However, there's every chance your falls/stream will be able to support bacteria that kill green water algae. Plus, if you add plants it's likely string algae will come with them and also attack green water algae. But this is a battle, the green water algae have defenses. If after maybe a month or two of green water I'd say the green water algae won and bring in the UV. The UV will kill the green water in a few days....which provides food for the green water killing bacteria and removes the chemicals produced by the green water algae that was attacking the bacteria. This can allow the bacteria to get the upper hand and from then on it will keep the water clear. So maybe after a couple of weeks you can turn the UV off and see if the water stays clear. Some ponds do need the UV to always run, but most don't. If your pond stays clear you can even disconnect and sell the UV getting most of your money back.

Bottom drain, you're right, difficult to connect a skimmer and bottom drain. Also difficult to run both on one pump.

One thing I see missing...there has to be some way to push stuff to the drain. A drain will only pull an inch or so around the hole. Couple of ways. Some drains come with a place for air to come out of the center of the drain. Another is placing Tangential Pond Returns (TPR) which is just a fancy term for directing pump output at an angle so the whole pond swirls. This can also be done with a catch basin for your waterfall. Water exits at the bottom in a direction the swirls the pond. The catch basin also keeps your surface still for better fish viewing and also collects foam instead of seeing that floating around.
CatchBasin.jpg

The final third of a bottom drain system is removing the stuff. Several types of filters do this. Another option is no filter. In this case you open a valve a water from the bottom drain rushes out. You close the valve and replace the lost water. Your pond acts as a settling tank. This is good when you just want to remove some muck build up.

In this size pond I'd probably skip the bottom drain altogether. Use a leaf rake (net from the swimming pool store) a couple of times a year and you're good to go.

All depends on what kind of pond you want. If you want a really heavy fish load then a bottom drain connected to a filter is a good idea.

Skimmers are always good idea I think. Cheap and easy so why not.

Additional filter space could be had in the front as you said. Probably the easiest. You can also dig out that corner where the waterfall all the way down to the deepest part. Then lay the liner, build a concrete block wall on top of the liner where the waterfall wall is now. Fill behind the wall with gravel up to water level and build your waterfall on top of that.

I'm not a fan of plant shelves...but it's not my pond. Instead you can enclose the shelves.
WidePlantShelf2.jpg

Lots of ways to do this, but you get the idea. Those beds can be filled with gravel and become a bog filter. You pump water in and it flows thru the gravel all the way around the pond to a low spot in the wall. That would give you maybe a 50' or longer gravel bed. And you can plant in the gravel so you still have what the shelves were for, but way better. Since there's no standing water in the beds you get zero string algae in and around the plants which is a huge mess. Raccoons won't knock pots off shelves into the pond, huge mess. Wind won't blow over plants, so you can grow much taller plants like Canna.
 

addy1

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You could put in a barrel type filter back in that corner, build your waterfall up around it. Have a bottom drain coming out of the side, a 2 inch pipe heading out to where you can reach it with an ball valve. To clean just open the ball valve and back flush it. The other thing you could do to help back flush it have a garden hose plumbed into the top, when you are ready to clean it you could turn on the garden hose, open the ball valve and flush the filter. Just trying to think of a way to have a filter where it is hard to reach. I had one like that on one of my very first ponds. It did work doing it that way.

I don't have a bottom drain, just net the bottom of my pond when any muck collects, about 2-3 times a summer season.

If you keep your shelves, make them wide enough to support a decent size pot. I use oil pans for a bunch of plants, if the shelf is too narrow they will slide off. The other thing that helps is have the shelves tip towards the side of the pond, i.e. back slope away from the pond. I had some large plants on my bog wall shelf, the plants managed to stay on the shelf even with the winds we get.

The bog type edging is a good idea, like wb states above, I love my bog, keeps my water healthy and algae free.

Here is a link to building bogs I did a while back, some basic information on different methods.
 
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Okay guys,
Thanks for the replies, sorry it has been so long but I had other things on the go. So after long review I have decided to dig out the grass side of the pond about another 1.5-2 feet to create enough room in that far corner by the electrical to put another filter. So this is what I think, Skimmer in the one corner with submersible pump to pump water to the waterfall. In the waterfall have a decent size waterfall bio filter with a few bags of media or rock or whatever I find. On the other side by the electrical supply Ill have a buried filter, probably a pressure fed system being supplied by a bottom drain. I know that this isnt the best setup for a bottom drain because it will pulverize everything before it reaches the filter but im not expecting a whole lot of fish poop anyways. I like the bottom drain idea because it keeps the water circulating.

Maybe Im 100% wrong on this, any thoughts? I have a fear of building this 5 ft deep pond and having it turn out that you cant even see the bottom because of poor water quality, hence the 3rd filter.

I really like the gravel bog idea, that is really awesome and I think im going to try to make that work. Possibly use the water coming from the buried filter to flow through the gravel.

What do you guys and gals think? any thing im missing?
 
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Okay here is an updated pic kind of what I was thinking.


On a side note, can anyone give me a few suggestions of stores with good prices that will ship?
 

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addy1

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Okay guys,
Thanks for the replies, sorry it has been so long but I had other things on the go. So after long review I have decided to dig out the grass side of the pond about another 1.5-2 feet to create enough room in that far corner by the electrical to put another filter. So this is what I think, Skimmer in the one corner with submersible pump to pump water to the waterfall. In the waterfall have a decent size waterfall bio filter with a few bags of media or rock or whatever I find. On the other side by the electrical supply Ill have a buried filter, probably a pressure fed system being supplied by a bottom drain. I know that this isnt the best setup for a bottom drain because it will pulverize everything before it reaches the filter but im not expecting a whole lot of fish poop anyways. I like the bottom drain idea because it keeps the water circulating.

Maybe Im 100% wrong on this, any thoughts? I have a fear of building this 5 ft deep pond and having it turn out that you cant even see the bottom because of poor water quality, hence the 3rd filter.

I really like the gravel bog idea, that is really awesome and I think im going to try to make that work. Possibly use the water coming from the buried filter to flow through the gravel.

What do you guys and gals think? any thing im missing?

If you are doing a bog, you would want pond water to go into the bog unfiltered, it is what feeds the plants, they need the nutrients. It can be drawn mid pond, with the bottom drain water feeding your other filters. Put a y on your piping with a ball valve to control the flow to the filter or the bog.
 

koiguy1969

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altho a bog can serve as its own bio and vegetative filter, making pre-bog filtration not a neccessity. it could definately be a plus...
plants feed on nitrates...the finished product of any biological filter is nitrates. so, yes, you could filter the water and send it to the bog. this would even help keep the bog cleaner.... the plants in the bog would feed just as any other pond plant that was bare rooted (floaters like hyacinths and lettuce) or planted in gravel in planters. many people such as myself, plant their underwater plants in gravel and stones.(golf ball size). so the roots have direct access to the water.all of my pond plants, the lillies, irises, and sweet flag are all planted in gravel. essentially making each one a passive bog. hyacinths and lettuce would thrive in a bog situation. they love water movement and would drop root into the gravel. i put them in the top of my filter, so the fresh filtered water passes continuously thru their roots. they do so well they send out runners and grow rootless plants outside the filter. they also have grown to heights of 18" - 24".
 
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Okay guys, there is one thing that I am stuck on and its driving me crazy. Its trying to set up my bottom drain. At first I was just going to go straight from the BD to an external pump with a leaf basket and call it good. The more I thought about it the more I dont want to pulvarize all that junk. So then I thought I would set up the Bottom drain to a gravity filter that was buried at water line, then put the pump after the filter so that gravity would carry the wastes through the filter. The only problem Im finding with this is all the filters I can find are only rated for 1000-1500 gph, and I will need 3600 gph to travel through my 4" BD. I got thinking and thought I could possibly put a second skimmer in, block off the skimming part of the filter and plumb in my BD, that way I could pull 3600 gph through the filter, and the water travels through a net, brushes, and a mat before it hits the pump.

So from what I gather, these are my two options. 1)go to a 3 inch BD (which I dont really want to do) and use a gravity filter system, or, 2)modify a skimmer to handle the increased water flow. What do you guys think is a better option?
 

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