First Small Pond Design

[Aurust]

I'm looking at building a small pond approximately 8 feet by 8 and a max depth of 24 inches and not planning on having any fish as it freezes solid over the winter. I'm wondering if I could get some advice about the basic construction and some potential issues I have.

First is that the area I want to build it in have several large mature trees, maple and spruce that will be very close, within 6 feet. I know from digging for gardening that there are large and small roots everywhere. I'm worried about using a flexible EPDM pond liner as I'm fairly certain the trees roots will seek out the water. Would a preformed plastic liner be better because of this?

Second I live in Northern Alberta where it freezes solid for 6 months of the year. Will this cause issues with either type of liner? Are there pumps or equipment that I should choose because of this? I'm certain I'll have to drain the pond or at least the equipment over the winter.

Thanks!

 

[Angel]

water movement will help with it freezing. moving water does not freeze. I believe @callingcolleen1 is in canada she can help you a bit more than me in NJ USA

 

[MitchM]

Welcome!
The roots will only give you a problem if a leak develops, then they will seek out that leak.
What kind of setup are you planning?
A 45 mil epdm liner will do fine, but you will need to remove the vulnerable equipment.
Moving water certainly does freeze.
Where are you in Alberta?

 

[Mucky_Waters]

I'm worried about using a flexible EPDM pond liner as I'm fairly certain the trees roots will seek out the water. Would a preformed plastic liner be better because of this?

A EPDM liner would be by far your best choice as it would remain flexible (enough) in the winter and much less prone to cracking than a plastic preformed pond. not to mention you would find it hard to find a preformed pond the size you indicated. Also, put some sort of underlay material down on the ground before putting the liner. Old carpet works well for this but there are lots of other options.
You are better off leaving the water in the pond for the winter as it will help protect it, even if it freezes solid. An EPDM rubber liner has a life expectancy of 22-35 years providing it is kept out of the Sun's damaging UV rays. Also important for it to be one piece with no seams.
As Mitch said, remove the pump and filter equipment in the winter. You could also have fish if you brought them in for the winter and put them back in the pond in the summer. A few small goldfish might be your best bet. Just be careful when taking them in the house and putting them back out in the pond that you make their transition from one body of water to the other very slow.
Adding fish to your pond

 

[Aurust]

Thanks for the info. I'm in Edmonton. I'm planning a pretty small little pond for my backyard in the City. I was thinking of a small pool with a short stream, maybe 6 feet, coming from waterfall at the top.

Welcome!
The roots will only give you a problem if a leak develops, then they will seek out that leak.
What kind of setup are you planning?
A 45 mil epdm liner will do fine, but you will need to remove the vulnerable equipment.
Moving water certainly does freeze.
Where are you in Alberta?

 

[Aurust]

After doing some more research I was think maybe a pondless system might work better. When looking at pumps is it possible to use a external pump in a pondless vault? What are the pros and cons of a external versus internal pump in a vault type system in terms of cleaning, maintenance etc?

Thanks!

 

[Lisak1]

Hmmm... I would say no, because external pumps aren't meant to be submerged. And the beauty of the pondless waterfall is the "where's the water going" mystery - no pump in sight!

 

[Aurust]

That's what I was thinking but I didn't know if there was a way to use an external that would still work well.

Any suggestions from anyone on what brand or pump to look at for a submersible pump? I'm looking for something around 2000-4000 GPH and 15-20ft head height.

 

[Lisak1]

We've used Aquascape pumps in both our pondless and our big pond - trouble free for six and seven years. The pond pump runs year round; the pondless runs from early spring through late fall.

 

[johnnyi]

I've had two Laguna pumps running 24x7 in my old pond for 7 years. One is the MaxFlo 2900 and the other a MaxFlo 1500. I chose them for their high flow/low electricity usage. The issue with these designs is that they probably would be too low a flow given the head height you're talking about. I probably have less that 10 feet of head per pump in the design I used (and that's with 2" diameter pipe and no 90 degree bends). They've worked very well for my application. In my new pond that I'm working on now, I'm trying to have even less head height by making the stream bed parallel the length of the pond thus reducing the overall distance from pump to outlet.

I'm biased toward ponds versus pondless - I love seeing water with plants in it. Very settling for me.

John

 

[sissy]

I have laguna a great pumps and energy saving is also great .I would worry about pine needles clogging up everything .You can do just a dipping pond and still have pondless .There is about 1 to 4 inch's of water ontop of the pondless part that gives birds and other critters a bathing place .I wish I had done 1 like that .Much easier to take care of .Better epdm as preformed ones shift in freeze and thaw times .They can raised up sometimes 6 inch's or more and can crack .

 

[Aurust]

That sounds interesting, do you or anyone else know of a video or anything about how to create a dipping pond using the same equipment as a pondless design? I'm intrigued!

I have laguna a great pumps and energy saving is also great .I would worry about pine needles clogging up everything .You can do just a dipping pond and still have pondless .There is about 1 to 4 inch's of water ontop of the pondless part that gives birds and other critters a bathing place .I wish I had done 1 like that .Much easier to take care of .Better epdm as preformed ones shift in freeze and thaw times .They can raised up sometimes 6 inch's or more and can crack .