First Small Pond Design

Joined
Apr 5, 2018
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Country
Canada
I'm looking at building a small pond approximately 8 feet by 8 and a max depth of 24 inches and not planning on having any fish as it freezes solid over the winter. I'm wondering if I could get some advice about the basic construction and some potential issues I have.

First is that the area I want to build it in have several large mature trees, maple and spruce that will be very close, within 6 feet. I know from digging for gardening that there are large and small roots everywhere. I'm worried about using a flexible EPDM pond liner as I'm fairly certain the trees roots will seek out the water. Would a preformed plastic liner be better because of this?

Second I live in Northern Alberta where it freezes solid for 6 months of the year. Will this cause issues with either type of liner? Are there pumps or equipment that I should choose because of this? I'm certain I'll have to drain the pond or at least the equipment over the winter.

Thanks!
 
Joined
Jun 23, 2017
Messages
771
Reaction score
712
Location
SNJ
Hardiness Zone
7a
Country
United States
water movement will help with it freezing. moving water does not freeze. I believe @callingcolleen1 is in canada she can help you a bit more than me in NJ USA
 
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Messages
7,046
Reaction score
7,241
Location
Water Valley, Alberta
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
2a
Country
Canada
Welcome!
The roots will only give you a problem if a leak develops, then they will seek out that leak.
What kind of setup are you planning?
A 45 mil epdm liner will do fine, but you will need to remove the vulnerable equipment.
Moving water certainly does freeze.
Where are you in Alberta?
 
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
1,993
Reaction score
1,786
Location
BC Canada
I'm worried about using a flexible EPDM pond liner as I'm fairly certain the trees roots will seek out the water. Would a preformed plastic liner be better because of this?
A EPDM liner would be by far your best choice as it would remain flexible (enough) in the winter and much less prone to cracking than a plastic preformed pond. not to mention you would find it hard to find a preformed pond the size you indicated. Also, put some sort of underlay material down on the ground before putting the liner. Old carpet works well for this but there are lots of other options.
You are better off leaving the water in the pond for the winter as it will help protect it, even if it freezes solid. An EPDM rubber liner has a life expectancy of 22-35 years providing it is kept out of the Sun's damaging UV rays. Also important for it to be one piece with no seams.
As Mitch said, remove the pump and filter equipment in the winter. You could also have fish if you brought them in for the winter and put them back in the pond in the summer. A few small goldfish might be your best bet. Just be careful when taking them in the house and putting them back out in the pond that you make their transition from one body of water to the other very slow.
Adding fish to your pond
 
Joined
Apr 5, 2018
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Country
Canada
Thanks for the info. I'm in Edmonton. I'm planning a pretty small little pond for my backyard in the City. I was thinking of a small pool with a short stream, maybe 6 feet, coming from waterfall at the top.


Welcome!
The roots will only give you a problem if a leak develops, then they will seek out that leak.
What kind of setup are you planning?
A 45 mil epdm liner will do fine, but you will need to remove the vulnerable equipment.
Moving water certainly does freeze.
Where are you in Alberta?
 
Joined
Apr 5, 2018
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Country
Canada
After doing some more research I was think maybe a pondless system might work better. When looking at pumps is it possible to use a external pump in a pondless vault? What are the pros and cons of a external versus internal pump in a vault type system in terms of cleaning, maintenance etc?

Thanks!
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2013
Messages
13,367
Reaction score
13,789
Location
Northern IL
Showcase(s):
1
Hmmm... I would say no, because external pumps aren't meant to be submerged. And the beauty of the pondless waterfall is the "where's the water going" mystery - no pump in sight!
 
Joined
Apr 5, 2018
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Country
Canada
That's what I was thinking but I didn't know if there was a way to use an external that would still work well.

Any suggestions from anyone on what brand or pump to look at for a submersible pump? I'm looking for something around 2000-4000 GPH and 15-20ft head height.
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2013
Messages
13,367
Reaction score
13,789
Location
Northern IL
Showcase(s):
1
We've used Aquascape pumps in both our pondless and our big pond - trouble free for six and seven years. The pond pump runs year round; the pondless runs from early spring through late fall.
 
Joined
Jul 22, 2011
Messages
145
Reaction score
93
Location
Sacramento, CA USDA Zone 9b
Hardiness Zone
9b
Country
United States
I've had two Laguna pumps running 24x7 in my old pond for 7 years. One is the MaxFlo 2900 and the other a MaxFlo 1500. I chose them for their high flow/low electricity usage. The issue with these designs is that they probably would be too low a flow given the head height you're talking about. I probably have less that 10 feet of head per pump in the design I used (and that's with 2" diameter pipe and no 90 degree bends). They've worked very well for my application. In my new pond that I'm working on now, I'm trying to have even less head height by making the stream bed parallel the length of the pond thus reducing the overall distance from pump to outlet.

I'm biased toward ponds versus pondless - I love seeing water with plants in it. Very settling for me.

John
 

sissy

sissy
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
33,086
Reaction score
15,707
Location
Axton virginia
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
7A
Country
United States
I have laguna a great pumps and energy saving is also great .I would worry about pine needles clogging up everything .You can do just a dipping pond and still have pondless .There is about 1 to 4 inch's of water ontop of the pondless part that gives birds and other critters a bathing place .I wish I had done 1 like that .Much easier to take care of .Better epdm as preformed ones shift in freeze and thaw times .They can raised up sometimes 6 inch's or more and can crack .
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 5, 2018
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Country
Canada
That sounds interesting, do you or anyone else know of a video or anything about how to create a dipping pond using the same equipment as a pondless design? I'm intrigued!


I have laguna a great pumps and energy saving is also great .I would worry about pine needles clogging up everything .You can do just a dipping pond and still have pondless .There is about 1 to 4 inch's of water ontop of the pondless part that gives birds and other critters a bathing place .I wish I had done 1 like that .Much easier to take care of .Better epdm as preformed ones shift in freeze and thaw times .They can raised up sometimes 6 inch's or more and can crack .
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
31,520
Messages
518,262
Members
13,740
Latest member
Peter Pen

Latest Threads

Top