Fish are dying while wintering?

[MichaelT]

Hi Everyone,

I built a wonderful pond 3 years ago (22' x 14' x 4' deep). This is our 3rd winter. The first 2 were wonderful. In the fall we noticed that some of the fish were up near the top of the pond, where usually they are down deep. We wintered the pond by installing a bubbler, removed plant material, etc. We then noticed that some fish were still near the surface as the cold weather started. The ones near the surface eventually perish. We have lost 10-20 fish this winter, between 1-3 year olds.

The weather got warmer for a week, so i changed 2/3 of the water. Then used a Antibacterial remedy (tea tree extracts) "Melafix" by PondCare. The fish are still struggling, a few up near the surface, and lost 2 more today.

Not sure what to do? Any suggestions?

 

[sissy]

That could mean there is no oxygen at the bottom or maybe built up leaves or something on the bottom .Have you tested the water to see what the levels are and have you stopped feeding them .Is the deck and cover new and could it be leacing something into the pond from the build of it .

 

[sissy]

nice pond by the way really nice

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Michael
This is your first post in this forum, so I take it you are not a member of any other pond forum. I have to ask, where did you get the idea to change 2/3 of your water in the middle of winter, and dose your pond with `Metalfix`?
You have not listed any of your water level parameters, like temperature, PH, ammonia, nitrates, etc... so it would be really hard for anyone to give you any meaningful advice. It can be hard enough to diagnose fish aliment problems with that information, it is next to impossible with out it.
Sorry for the lose of your fish, but you do have a very lovely looking pond and covered deck area.

 

[sissy]

glad some one from Canada came on as they could help you more since we do not get that cold here .Need to really know if you just built all the structures as they may be causing a slight problem

 

[sissy]

I just tested mine and scared me ammonia was up and retested again and cleaned vial real good this time so must have had something in the tube and I did not clean it good or had something in the cap I did not see .whew

 

[sissy]

glass of water from pond and test

 

[MichaelT]

Thank you for your replies.

I have tested the water and all levels are good:
PH - 6.5; Nitrates - 0, Ammonia - 0, Copper - .005; GH Hardiness - 180; KH Carbonate - 90
Temperature: 36 F at top 6"

The structure was completed when the pond was built 3 years ago.

I consulted with a number of pond companies. The suggestion to change out 1/3 of the water twice over 2 days was suggested to eliminate any bacteria problems. The suggestion to use Melafix to take care of any potential parasites.

Pond was netted in the fall to catch leaves and debrise.

 

[sissy]

if you check melafix does not work at lower temps like that and would think they would cause the oxygen level to go down .I never treat a whole pond but have had no problems so far .But seems there have been several people use stuff like that in a pond and had fish die .not sure if it is the product doing that .I have koi and goldfish .There has to be something there that is sneaking by your radar .I know it is a crap shoot to find the problem .Do you have you filters working and have you stopped feeding .I was going for the filters as you must have inspected every thing .if water is good .I just added bags of activated charcoal to mine and put it in the winter to help the water and I use crushed oyster shells also in big bags .My filters re still running but we are warmer here ,but had over 4 inches of rain in a couple of days then snow and now temps are back up to 50 degrees F

 

[sissy]

Could something be dead in the pond that you can't see .

 

[Ruben Miranda]

Hello
At those cold temps
besides the bubbler are any pumps or filters running for circulation ?

It might be those fish where already sick before winter hit and now have circummed to the illness.

But treating with Melafix
It will kill BB and deplete 02

Where those test done with the strips or the liquid and tube the strips things are often wrong.

Ruben

 

[Dave 54]

Your Ph is the wrong end of the scale it needs to be up to 7.5 - 8.0 tops , did you clear your pond or filters prior to the winter months ?
Did you find anything amiss with your dead fish i;e ulcers etc if so I would hazzard a guess that you have an areomonas problem and the pond should have been treated with a good anti bacterial treatment.
In reality should take a swab to discover which bacteria it is that is causing losses which means a trip to the nearest fish vet if you have one
You really need to clean the pond and filters prior to winter and then again in the spring.
Do this in future and it will help in trying to aviod the problems your having now.
Areomonas just love dirty conditions and can cause great losses of fish when your fish become stresed because of , overcroweding poor water quality and fluctuations in water temperature
A hard lesson to learn I'm afraidbut one you probably wont forget.

rgrds

Dave

 

[j.w]

MichaelT

 

[Waterbug]

I have tested the water and all levels are good:
PH - 6.5
KH Carbonate - 90
Temperature: 36 F at top 6"

Those numbers are good? If you really know what you're doing then sure. It is possible to run a pond successfully with those numbers.

But for most people these numbers would not be good. That you got a single pH reading of 6.5 doesn't mean your pond is always 6.5. It normally varies throughout the day, after a lot of rain, and many other reasons. So you at least want to measure once as close to sunrise as possible and once as close to sundown as possible hopefully in the same day. Being winter the difference may not be that great, but still it's step one.

A single 6.5 reading would make me think pH is swinging up and down and that can kill fish. Doesn't mean that's actually true, just makes me wonder.

On the other hand KH, which should stablize pH, isn't really that low. When I see pH that low I assume KH is going to be 0-40. So there could be more going on than meets the eye here and I would figure it out before doing anything. For example, maybe you're not being careful with the test? Or water temp is messing it up?

Toronto has pretty good hardness, but I'd still check your source water. Just good to know as much as possible to get a bigger picture.

As water gets colder I'd expect pH to increase. So in your case as water warms I'd expect pH to go down even more, which makes that 6.5 even less good imo. However, there are too many other factors to know what your pH will do in the future. Temp is one of those many factors...but it's not making pH look any better.

Google "pond pH buffering" if you'd like more info. Lot's of good info out there but you should read a few sources. When people write things it's for a particular point and so it may be a bit skewed. More sources the more you reduce the skewing and learn more.

 

[Dave 54]

Those numbers are good? If you really know what you're doing then sure. It is possible to run a pond successfully with those numbers.

But for most people these numbers would not be good. That you got a single pH reading of 6.5 doesn't mean your pond is always 6.5. It normally varies throughout the day, after a lot of rain, and many other reasons. So you at least want to measure once as close to sunrise as possible and once as close to sundown as possible hopefully in the same day. Being winter the difference may not be that great, but still it's step one.

A single 6.5 reading would make me think pH is swinging up and down and that can kill fish. Doesn't mean that's actually true, just makes me wonder.

On the other hand KH, which should stablize pH, isn't really that low. When I see pH that low I assume KH is going to be 0-40. So there could be more going on than meets the eye here and I would figure it out before doing anything. For example, maybe you're not being careful with the test? Or water temp is messing it up?

Toronto has pretty good hardness, but I'd still check your source water. Just good to know as much as possible to get a bigger picture.

As water gets colder I'd expect pH to increase. So in your case as water warms I'd expect pH to go down even more, which makes that 6.5 even less good imo. However, there are too many other factors to know what your pH will do in the future. Temp is one of those many factors...but it's not making pH look any better.

Google "pond pH buffering" if you'd like more info. Lot's of good info out there but you should read a few sources. When people write things it's for a particular point and so it may be a bit skewed. More sources the more you reduce the skewing and learn more.

I agree with Waterbug but another thing that could be throwing your PH could be as simple as a dirty test tube.
Always after use make sure you imediatly clean them out afterwards otherwise if plastic the chemicals used in these kits can become ingrained in the plastic and give you a wrong reading ,
However looking I see only Ammnoia, PH, Nitrate, Nitrite kits how did you get your KH reading ?.
Many ponders tend to over look these kits which in reality be bought at the same time along with your others (for future reference).
You can as Waterbug suggests google othersite but be careful of miss-information as that can and does happen on the net.
Myself I prefare to read good old fashioned book and have threaded a list of books you can if you wish buy there are Titles, Authors Names and ISBN numbers , a good place to buy these sort of books is Amazon
I would strongly recomend The Interpet Book of Fish Health as a starter book for you.


rgrds


Dave