Fish changing colors

[mikeinpgh]

Hi,
I was wondering if Koi and Goldfish change colors through out their whole life. All of my Koi have changed some in the last 2 years. One was black and yellow. Now he is black and orange/yellowish. I would describe it like burnt orange. It looks pretty cool. But this one in the pic was pretty weird. All of the orange on his head just seemed to disapear this year. His whole head is peach color now. His name is Bernie LOL
Do they continue to change or does it stop when they get older?
Thanks,
Mike

 

[fishin4cars]

In the pic? LOL yes they can, smaller fish are more likely to change than larger but they can as well. There are types of Koi that are well know for ever changing. It's most common for the changes to take place after a drastic weather change. Large rain event, cooling or warming of the water, large water change, etc. Koi and goldfish don't change the same way though. Goldfish usually start off dark and go to lighter colors. say start brown, then turn orange, then start adding white or turn white. Koi change differently, White is stable, all other colors aren't, some are less stable colors than others. But a koi that is basically white background will always be white background, the red, black, yellow, blue, etc, will come and go.

 

[sissy]

Mine change color it seems when water temps change ,like winter to spring or fall to winter

 

[mikeinpgh]

LOL, I forgot to add the pic.
I guess you shouldn't be TOO picky when buying smaller koi if they are going to change color. They are close to their original color but loosing the orange on his head was unexpected.
Interesting though. I thought, "did miss something here?" When did this happen.LOL
Thank you for the replies.

 

[fishin4cars]

It's part of the learning curve with Koi. I have been keeping them for probably 18-20 years on and off. Trying to pick a baby that will grow into a special fish isn't easy. The one that Sissy has (Ms. Aggie) continues to improve. This is typically not the case. Genetics for fish from Japan are more likely to improve with age, but many aren't that good looking as young fish. Many times we buy fish when they are what they call " finished " fish. Even being small these fish have already achieved the best look they will have. what is worse is when you buy a 12"-16" higher quality fish (Usually a lot more expensive as well) and then they start changing. I bought a Really nice Kohaku this spring, Actually two, One the breeder recommended($300) One I picked to watch them grow together. ($150) It's a good learning experience. I like the fish I picked but I now see why the cheaper fish was cheaper. When we got them it was the better looking fish IMO, Now, the red is falling back, and the white appears more milky. The nicer fish is getting better, for vivid color, snow white back ground, and clean lines. I purchased these two for this reason, I wanted to see and learn what the higher quality koi keepers are after. I'll never pay $5,000 or more for a Koi, But there might be a chance some day I could pick up a smaller fish that will be of that value when grown, I want to at least be able to make a more educated choice if that chance comes around.

 

[Waterbug]

People really into Koi do think they can predict with at least to some degree how colors will develop. Volumes written on the subject. IMO this may be the most important part to having Koi. Almost like betting on a young fish and the thrill if the fish develops as predicted.

Written before I saw Larkin's post.

 

[fishin4cars]

With some degree they can, but it's a learning curve for sure. I just got in a discussion with an attorney that was comparing them to Througbreed horses. I told him they are very similar. It's far easier to pick a koi that is going to "finish" out at a large size when you go somewhere and see the parents and the offspring and can see the different devoloping stages. Far harder to pick a Koi that will be a good looking fish when grown when you are looking through a assortment of different small, brightly colored, and different type Koi. You eyes want to go to that one fish that appeals the most at the time,

 

[Waterbug]

I was just about to add the Througbreed horses thing to my post when I saw yours...jinx you own me soda.

It's far easier to pick a koi that is going to finish out at a large size...

You've so drunk the Kool-Aid.

 

[fishin4cars]

I was just about to add the Througbreed horses thing to my post when I saw yours...jinx you own me soda.


You've so drunk the Kool-Aid.

Couple to many Pucker shots, add to that my sticky key keyboard. No telling what I'll type. LOL Care for a Pucker shot and a Mountain dew, Great way to start the day. LOL

 

[Mmathis]

When fish change color by the season, do they ever GO BACK to their " original" color, or do they continue to update their wardrobes throughout their lives?

 

[Waterbug]

I have very limited Koi knowledge, but my understanding is colors get better or worst and maybe some spots of color may go away. But a Kohaku (white & red) wouldn't change into a Sanke (white & red & black), well maybe a poor Sanke.

I know pond Goldfish better...Common and Comets are born brown (olive to black) or a very light orange. The light orange becomes darker orange, the typical Goldfish color. From orange most change to solid red or solid white. The red is very close to the orange and I don't think many people notice the difference. Side by side orange is nice, red is gorgeous imo. Many solid white turn to solid red fairly soon after turning white and a few (of my fish) changed to white and red (Sarasa Comet).

The browns can change to orange and then on like the others or skip the orange phase, or I just never noticed it. These can stick in a part brown, part red pattern for awhile, very pretty imo. I've never seen a brown turn white that I can remember. Some browns seem to stay brown forever, and some probably do. But ever one I've had did change eventually and not for any particular reason I could tell. Any age, any time of year. But I can't think of a brown fish beyond the age of say 4, although certainly possible I assume.

Water color can effect the shade of color...dark water washes out the color. A brown becomes a gold or light bronze. Reds becomes more like the orange.

Food can effect the white, the head becoming yellowish. Water might effect white too.

Shubunkin seem to be born with their colors and stay that way. The pattern may change, come up and go down like Koi, but I never noticed. Can't say I ever looked that close either.

I've never seen a Goldfish go backwards in color. That I don't think that is possible. Kind of like saying good-bye to my hair...not planning a reunion party anytime soon.

 

[fishin4cars]

TM, It would be extremely rare for that to happen. I've seen Sanke that change to a Kohaku look. Usually if this were to happen there would usually be shimy's left over. (Black specks left over on a few scales.) Now did it change for worse, not really, this particular fish looks better as a Kohaku. Again, this is a very rare occurrence from my understanding. I do know on my Kumonryu not to expect it to go back like it was. lol I've been watching this fish grow for three years and every time she changes she changes pretty drastically. But in most cases no they don't change back like they were.
I really like WB's post on the goldfish, Very well written, I'm just wondering how a fish would go "BACKWARDS" in color??? Reverting back to olive/ brown? I don't think i have ever seen that happen either if that's what it meant. lol

 

[Waterbug]

I've seen Sanke that change to a Kohaku look. Usually if this were to happen there would usually be shimy's left over. (Black specks left over on a few scales.) Now did it change for worse, not really, this particular fish looks better as a Kohaku.

Can't you be excommunicated for thinking that way?

 

[mikeinpgh]

Thanks for all of the good info. I'll have to look up the different breeds of koi so I know what you guys are talking about.
Since starting this thread, I just noticed that one of my shubunkins has lost all of her orange now. I think this happened all of a sudden. I don't know if my koi changed that quick, or if it was over a longer period of time. I'll try to take a picture.
The weather is changing. :goldfish:

 

[Mucky_Waters]

By a fluke I ended up with a lot of baby goldfish this summer, I have never had this happen before because I've always had turtles, and turtles love fish eggs and young fry. But I placed a few water hyacinths from my main pond back into my little water hyacinth brooding greenhouse pond, and I guess these water hyacinth must have been egg laden because to my surprise I ended up with about 50 young goldfish. Anyway, I placed these little goldfish back into the main pond and this is the first time I have ever had baby goldfish survive past the fry stage, so I have never had the opportunity to watch them grow.
Only a couple of them have any of the traditional orange coloring, the rest have that dark bronze coloring, I too was wondering if and when the rest of them would change color.

As little side story.
I am hoping that these goldfish grow so I can stock the pond of some friends who live nearby. This spring these friends ( a family of 4) visited our place and saw our pond. At that time I didn't have any fish in the pond and they offered us some from their heavily stocked, but very small pond. We ended up with 4 of their good size goldfish, and these are the parents of the 50 little ones I mentioned. A couple of sad things have happen to this family since then. The mother discovered she has a very serious type of leukemia and is currently in the hospital undergoing therapy and is expected to be there for 3-5 months. The hospital that she is at is located in another city several hours away, so their lives are pretty mixed up at the moment and probably will be for some time. Anyway, I mention this because we just went out and visited them last weekend, she appears to be doing well so far. but while talking with them they told us that shortly after they gave us the goldfish last spring a raccoon came and raided their pond. Their were no survivors. So I would very much like to restock their pond this spring with some small offspring from their original goldfish clan. Of course I would like them to be GOLD fish rather than dark BRONZE fish. Do you think I'll have enough that are the right color?