Fishless cycle

Discussion in 'Indoor tanks' started by Gordo33, Dec 28, 2015.

  1. Gordo33

    Gordo33

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    I am currently cycling a 36 gallon tank to grow out juvenile Discus.
    I purchased a generic brand ammonia .
    To raise the ammonia level to 2 ppm I added 100 drops from a 5ml syringe
    The tank temp is set at 80-81*
    DIY sponge filter with 5 1" sponges ( 1 sponge was from display tank already seeded with bacteria)

    Ammonia levels
    Day 1-3 , 5 and 7 : 100 drops ammonia added to maintain 2 ppm. Reading prior to adding NH3 Was 1ppm
    Day 8-11 no NH3 was added. Reading was decreasing from 1.5 - .5 ppm
    Day 12 & 14. 20 drops NH3 added. NH3: .25ppm

    Nitrite Levels
    Day 3. < 0.25ppm
    Day 4-7 0.25 ppm
    Day 8-12. Steady increase to <5.0 but > 2.0. Those color charts tough to judge
    Day 13-14 ~5.0ppm

    Nitrates
    Tested day 13 read 20ppm. ( tap water is 5 ppm)

    Current plan is to keep NH3 between 0.25 - 0.50ppm and not allow nitrites to spike above 5ppm. The source I'm using states if nitrite goes above 5ppm will become toxic to bacteria. Once NH3 and nitrites reach 0 ppm then I will add 100 drops ammonia and look for both to reduce to 0 in 24 hrs 3 consecutive times for the tank to be fish ready. Then big WC to rid nitrates.
     
    Gordo33, Dec 28, 2015
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  2. Gordo33

    MitchM

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    Nice Gordo.(y)
    I always like to hear of fishless cycling being used.
     
    MitchM, Dec 28, 2015
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  3. Gordo33

    Gordo33

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    Yes I'm not a fan of sacrificing fish for my tanks benifit.
    In another forum I belong to called simply discus there are several members using a product from Dr. Tim and state they can add fish from day one without harmful affects. The link is posted in my reply to Jordan Meyers Nitrospira article. .
     
    Gordo33, Dec 28, 2015
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  4. Gordo33

    Ponder Koi

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    when you build your own filters its basically necessary to prime them without fish. I consider it a fun and easy in the part of the hobby. Just keep ph up and ammonia present, and large dose of any aquarium bottle bacteria and it does its self quickly. I think the bacteria will go dormant before they die from nitrite but large water change speeds up and finishes the cycle.
     
    Ponder Koi, Dec 28, 2015
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  5. Gordo33

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Never heard of this before.
     
    Meyer Jordan, Dec 28, 2015
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  6. Gordo33

    Ponder Koi

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    Im sure most life at that scale is very tolerable to any nitrogens
     
    Ponder Koi, Dec 28, 2015
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  7. Gordo33

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Nitrite oxidizing bacteria (Nitrobacter) is inhibited by elevated Ammonia and Nitrate levels.
    "The nitrite-oxidizing activity of ZS-1 (Nitrobacter) started to be inhibited by ammonia and nitrate when the concentrations of ammonia and nitrate reached 25 mg L-1 and 100 mg L-1, respectively. The inhibition was stronger with higher concentration of ammonia or nitrate. The nitrite-oxidizing activity of ZS-1, however, was not inhibited by high concentration of nitrite (500 mg L-1). The nitrite-oxidizing activity of ZS-1 was increased by low ammonia concentration (1 mg L-1 to 10 mg L-1)."
    Ammonia stimulates growth and nitrite-oxidizing activity of Nitrobacter winogradskyi
    Shouguang Ma, Demin Zhang*, Wenjun Zhang and Yinong Wang


    and Ammonia oxidizing bacteria (Nitrosomonas) are inhibited by elevated levels of Nitrite.
    "
    Nitrosomonas europaea, an obligate ammonia-oxidizing bacterium, lost an increasing amount of ammonia oxidation activity upon exposure to increasing concentrations of nitrite, the primary product of ammonia-oxidizing metabolism."

    Loss of Ammonia Monooxygenase Activity in Nitrosomonas europaea upon exposure to Nitrite

    Lisa Y. Stein and Daniel J. Arp
     
    Meyer Jordan, Dec 29, 2015
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  8. Gordo33

    Gordo33

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    Tank cycled in 28 days...other forums state faster cycles with bottled products but I'm happy with outcome . Looking forward to growing out 3-4 juvenile discus to eventually go into my DT.
     
    Gordo33, Jan 12, 2016
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  9. Gordo33

    IPA

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    I am on third week into fishless cycle and run into a quandary. Ammonia finally began to get processed to nitrite and now I don't know how to proceed. My ammonia is 0 and nitrite is greater than 2.0 ppm. Do I keep adding enough ammonia to reach, say .25 ppm to keep Nitrosamines feed or do I just not add any ammonia for a time and how long? At what point do I need to become alarmed at nitrite levels?
     
    IPA, Oct 1, 2017
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  10. Gordo33

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Continue as you have until the Nitrate level begins to rise and Nitrite level declines. When Nitrite reaches zero, you can safely add fish. Nitrite levels during this period should not be a cause for concern as there are no fish to be harmed.
    Have patience. Nature is working on it.
     
    Meyer Jordan, Oct 1, 2017
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  11. Gordo33

    MitchM

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    With a fishless cycling process, you are taking the place of your future fish that will be constantly producing ammonia, so keep adding a small amount of ammonia daily to maintain a healthy population of beneficial bacteria.
    Half the initial amount added daily would be fine.
     
    MitchM, Oct 1, 2017
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  12. Gordo33

    IPA

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    IPA, Oct 1, 2017
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  13. Gordo33

    MitchM

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    MitchM, Oct 1, 2017
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  14. Gordo33

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Meyer Jordan, Oct 1, 2017
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  15. Gordo33

    MitchM

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    MitchM, Oct 1, 2017
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  16. Gordo33

    IPA

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    I followed the source links at the bottom and have been reading all about Koi pollution.
    http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/filtration/koi1pollution.htm
     
    IPA, Oct 2, 2017
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  17. Gordo33

    Magzire

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    I just got a tank cycled in less than two weeks with fish using Evolution Aqua Pure. I noticed using a heater seemed to help, set at 22C.
     
    Magzire, Oct 2, 2017
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  18. Gordo33

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Maintain a temperature to 25C - 30C for optimum nitrification efficiency.
     
    Meyer Jordan, Oct 2, 2017
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  19. Gordo33

    cas

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    I was glad you provided the new link. Earlier this year I tried to find this information and the old link was gone. However, the information in this new link is different than the old link. Do you happen to know which information is correct? Here are the old and new numbers. It looks like the new ammonia numbers are the same as the weight with the decimal point moved.
    upload_2017-10-2_7-8-58.png
     
    cas, Oct 2, 2017
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  20. Gordo33

    IPA

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    @cas , according to both links, fish produce .1 gram of ammonia per 1000 gram of body weight (per day) excreted through the gills which would support the new value. Could the old value include the ammonia produced by solid waste as well? which is 1 gram of waste per 3 grams of fish, and I don't know if that also includes what is excreted through the gills. I read the amount of ammonia from solid waste produced following links from this tread and supporting articles but cannot find it now.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2017
    IPA, Oct 2, 2017
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