Fishless cycle


Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
550
Reaction score
627
Location
Willow Grove,PA
Hardiness Zone
6a/b
Country
United States
I am currently cycling a 36 gallon tank to grow out juvenile Discus.
I purchased a generic brand ammonia .
To raise the ammonia level to 2 ppm I added 100 drops from a 5ml syringe
The tank temp is set at 80-81*
DIY sponge filter with 5 1" sponges ( 1 sponge was from display tank already seeded with bacteria)

Ammonia levels
Day 1-3 , 5 and 7 : 100 drops ammonia added to maintain 2 ppm. Reading prior to adding NH3 Was 1ppm
Day 8-11 no NH3 was added. Reading was decreasing from 1.5 - .5 ppm
Day 12 & 14. 20 drops NH3 added. NH3: .25ppm

Nitrite Levels
Day 3. < 0.25ppm
Day 4-7 0.25 ppm
Day 8-12. Steady increase to <5.0 but > 2.0. Those color charts tough to judge
Day 13-14 ~5.0ppm

Nitrates
Tested day 13 read 20ppm. ( tap water is 5 ppm)

Current plan is to keep NH3 between 0.25 - 0.50ppm and not allow nitrites to spike above 5ppm. The source I'm using states if nitrite goes above 5ppm will become toxic to bacteria. Once NH3 and nitrites reach 0 ppm then I will add 100 drops ammonia and look for both to reduce to 0 in 24 hrs 3 consecutive times for the tank to be fish ready. Then big WC to rid nitrates.
 
Ad

Advertisements

Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
550
Reaction score
627
Location
Willow Grove,PA
Hardiness Zone
6a/b
Country
United States
Nice Gordo.(y)
I always like to hear of fishless cycling being used.
Yes I'm not a fan of sacrificing fish for my tanks benifit.
In another forum I belong to called simply discus there are several members using a product from Dr. Tim and state they can add fish from day one without harmful affects. The link is posted in my reply to Jordan Meyers Nitrospira article. .
 
Joined
Aug 5, 2014
Messages
45
Reaction score
33
Location
shoreline ,CT
when you build your own filters its basically necessary to prime them without fish. I consider it a fun and easy in the part of the hobby. Just keep ph up and ammonia present, and large dose of any aquarium bottle bacteria and it does its self quickly. I think the bacteria will go dormant before they die from nitrite but large water change speeds up and finishes the cycle.
 
Ad

Advertisements

Meyer Jordan

Tadpole
Joined
Oct 10, 2014
Messages
7,177
Reaction score
5,652
Location
Pensacola, Florida
Hardiness Zone
9a
Country
United States
Im sure most life at that scale is very tolerable to any nitrogens
Nitrite oxidizing bacteria (Nitrobacter) is inhibited by elevated Ammonia and Nitrate levels.
"The nitrite-oxidizing activity of ZS-1 (Nitrobacter) started to be inhibited by ammonia and nitrate when the concentrations of ammonia and nitrate reached 25 mg L-1 and 100 mg L-1, respectively. The inhibition was stronger with higher concentration of ammonia or nitrate. The nitrite-oxidizing activity of ZS-1, however, was not inhibited by high concentration of nitrite (500 mg L-1). The nitrite-oxidizing activity of ZS-1 was increased by low ammonia concentration (1 mg L-1 to 10 mg L-1)."
Ammonia stimulates growth and nitrite-oxidizing activity of Nitrobacter winogradskyi
Shouguang Ma, Demin Zhang*, Wenjun Zhang and Yinong Wang


and Ammonia oxidizing bacteria (Nitrosomonas) are inhibited by elevated levels of Nitrite.
"
Nitrosomonas europaea, an obligate ammonia-oxidizing bacterium, lost an increasing amount of ammonia oxidation activity upon exposure to increasing concentrations of nitrite, the primary product of ammonia-oxidizing metabolism."

Loss of Ammonia Monooxygenase Activity in Nitrosomonas europaea upon exposure to Nitrite

Lisa Y. Stein and Daniel J. Arp
 
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
550
Reaction score
627
Location
Willow Grove,PA
Hardiness Zone
6a/b
Country
United States
Tank cycled in 28 days...other forums state faster cycles with bottled products but I'm happy with outcome . Looking forward to growing out 3-4 juvenile discus to eventually go into my DT.
 

IPA

Joined
Aug 9, 2017
Messages
403
Reaction score
248
Location
63b Chesapeake-Pamlico Lowlands and Tidal Marshes
Hardiness Zone
8a
Country
United States
I am on third week into fishless cycle and run into a quandary. Ammonia finally began to get processed to nitrite and now I don't know how to proceed. My ammonia is 0 and nitrite is greater than 2.0 ppm. Do I keep adding enough ammonia to reach, say .25 ppm to keep Nitrosamines feed or do I just not add any ammonia for a time and how long? At what point do I need to become alarmed at nitrite levels?
 

Meyer Jordan

Tadpole
Joined
Oct 10, 2014
Messages
7,177
Reaction score
5,652
Location
Pensacola, Florida
Hardiness Zone
9a
Country
United States
I am on third week into fishless cycle and run into a quandary. Ammonia finally began to get processed to nitrite and now I don't know how to proceed. My ammonia is 0 and nitrite is greater than 2.0 ppm. Do I keep adding enough ammonia to reach, say .25 ppm to keep Nitrosamines feed or do I just not add any ammonia for a time and how long? At what point do I need to become alarmed at nitrite levels?
Continue as you have until the Nitrate level begins to rise and Nitrite level declines. When Nitrite reaches zero, you can safely add fish. Nitrite levels during this period should not be a cause for concern as there are no fish to be harmed.
Have patience. Nature is working on it.
 
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Messages
7,046
Reaction score
7,208
Location
Water Valley, Alberta
Hardiness Zone
2a
Country
Canada
I am on third week into fishless cycle and run into a quandary. Ammonia finally began to get processed to nitrite and now I don't know how to proceed. My ammonia is 0 and nitrite is greater than 2.0 ppm. Do I keep adding enough ammonia to reach, say .25 ppm to keep Nitrosamines feed or do I just not add any ammonia for a time and how long? At what point do I need to become alarmed at nitrite levels?
With a fishless cycling process, you are taking the place of your future fish that will be constantly producing ammonia, so keep adding a small amount of ammonia daily to maintain a healthy population of beneficial bacteria.
Half the initial amount added daily would be fine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: IPA
Ad

Advertisements

Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Messages
7,046
Reaction score
7,208
Location
Water Valley, Alberta
Hardiness Zone
2a
Country
Canada

IPA

Joined
Aug 9, 2017
Messages
403
Reaction score
248
Location
63b Chesapeake-Pamlico Lowlands and Tidal Marshes
Hardiness Zone
8a
Country
United States
There used to be a chart available where you could calculate a more exact amount to what ammonia you could add in by measuring your initial fish size/population.

It looks like they've replaced the chart with this page:
https://russellwatergardens.com/pages/metabolization-rates-of-biological-filters

You can use the information on that page to approximate the ammonia output of your initial fish population.

.
I followed the source links at the bottom and have been reading all about Koi pollution.
http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/filtration/koi1pollution.htm
 
Ad

Advertisements

Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
328
Reaction score
134
Location
Kildare
Country
Ireland
I just got a tank cycled in less than two weeks with fish using Evolution Aqua Pure. I noticed using a heater seemed to help, set at 22C.
 

cas

Joined
Apr 20, 2015
Messages
1,585
Reaction score
2,057
Location
NE Ohio
Hardiness Zone
6a
Country
United States
I believe that this is the link that you were looking for @MitchM

https://russellwatergardens.com/pages/koi-length-and-weight
I was glad you provided the new link. Earlier this year I tried to find this information and the old link was gone. However, the information in this new link is different than the old link. Do you happen to know which information is correct? Here are the old and new numbers. It looks like the new ammonia numbers are the same as the weight with the decimal point moved.
upload_2017-10-2_7-8-58.png
 
Ad

Advertisements

IPA

Joined
Aug 9, 2017
Messages
403
Reaction score
248
Location
63b Chesapeake-Pamlico Lowlands and Tidal Marshes
Hardiness Zone
8a
Country
United States
@cas , according to both links, fish produce .1 gram of ammonia per 1000 gram of body weight (per day) excreted through the gills which would support the new value. Could the old value include the ammonia produced by solid waste as well? which is 1 gram of waste per 3 grams of fish, and I don't know if that also includes what is excreted through the gills. I read the amount of ammonia from solid waste produced following links from this tread and supporting articles but cannot find it now.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Top