Folding the liner......

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As I move along, I'm trying to anticipate different issues I expect to encounter. One that I've researched online, youtube, etc and searched this site for is the subject of folding the liner when lying it in the hole over the underlayment. Would anyone care to share either a location where I could study the correct way of doing this, or sharing their experience when you did yours? It seems like after placing the underlayment in an irregular hole and than putting the liner on top of that one would think there would be lots of bunching of the liner if not correctly folded or pleated. I'm assuming once folded and the water is in, the folds and or pleats will stay in place under the weight and pressure of the water against it, and that would somewhat help to flatten it out. But again before filling the pond, is there a preferred way of making the folds in the liner? .........Oh one last thing, being the pita I am, has anyone else ever used 2 layers of underlayment? I tend to be overly cautious with things like this. I'm using the Firestone 45 mil EPDM liner. Thanks for any help anyone might have.

Going a little slow here as of course the water and electric lines that go to the smaller preformed pond I'm replacing had the be moved going through the garden. They would have been almost in the middle of the new liner pond. I only mention this for those who might wonder what's taking me so long, ha.

Bill
 
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Go as slow as you need to - you'll get no judgement here for proceeding with caution!

As for folding your liner, a lot depends on the shape of your pond. I think a rectangular pond would, in some ways be easier, but also more difficult. Easier because it seems obvious to put your folds in the corners. But more difficult because then you're trying to deal with all the excess bulk in the corners, if that makes sense. Our pond is more oval in shape so we were able to ease the bulk in all along the edges with a series of small folds. And having shelves makes that even easier, as you "lose" a bit of your excess as you fold along the shelves. Don't stress too much about tit ahead of time. You really just have to work with it as you go along. My biggest piece of advice is to not make a single cut to your liner until you are 100% sure you have everything exactly where you want it. Edge work should be the very last thing you do. And keep as much of the extra around the edges as possible as you may find edges settling over time and having that extra liner can be an easy fix.

Double underlayment? I guess it won't hurt, but I really think you don't need it. What kind of soil are you building on? If it's particularly rocky maybe it would help, but a better idea is to make sure the bottom is smooth before you install your underlayment. Get out any roots or rocks that are visible and the underlayment will provide the extra protection you may need. Remember - it's protecting your liner from anything that's underneath it. Make sure there's nothing under it, and you should be fine!
 
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I purchased 8 oz underlayment instead of the more common 4 oz. Does that count as two layers?
 

Meyer Jordan

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As I move along, I'm trying to anticipate different issues I expect to encounter. One that I've researched online, youtube, etc and searched this site for is the subject of folding the liner when lying it in the hole over the underlayment. Would anyone care to share either a location where I could study the correct way of doing this, or sharing their experience when you did yours? It seems like after placing the underlayment in an irregular hole and than putting the liner on top of that one would think there would be lots of bunching of the liner if not correctly folded or pleated. I'm assuming once folded and the water is in, the folds and or pleats will stay in place under the weight and pressure of the water against it, and that would somewhat help to flatten it out. But again before filling the pond, is there a preferred way of making the folds in the liner? .........Oh one last thing, being the pita I am, has anyone else ever used 2 layers of underlayment? I tend to be overly cautious with things like this. I'm using the Firestone 45 mil EPDM liner. Thanks for any help anyone might have.

Going a little slow here as of course the water and electric lines that go to the smaller preformed pond I'm replacing had the be moved going through the garden. They would have been almost in the middle of the new liner pond. I only mention this for those who might wonder what's taking me so long, ha.

Bill

The technique that I developed over the years seem to give me the best results.

1. Center the liner in the pond.
2. Begin to slowly fill with water.
3. As pond fills, walk around the entire pond perimeter pulling the liner as you go. This will remove all of the minor wrinkles.
4. As pond continues to fill pull liner so that any folding that is required can be reduced to a minimum. (consolidate small folds into larger folds.}
5. If the pond incorporates shelves, place a heavy object (Rock, concrete block etc.) on the large fold to temporarily secure its position.
6. Continue in this fashion until pond is full of water.

This process can be tedious and time consuming but better results are achieved.
 
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Great explanation @Meyer Jordan - Slow and steady seems to be the best pace for this type of job. Don't rush yourself and you'll be happier with the results.
 

sissy

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It is easier with a rectangular pond or square pond 4 corners like a sheet
 
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Also if you are using the Firestone edpm liner pay attention to which way is up....... Unfortunately I put mine in with the Firestone name and product info in white stencil facing up, it shows up in three places...... Fortunately the algae has covered it up
 

sissy

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I did not have writing on my firestone liner only blue lines and liner came saying which end was up .
 
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I did not have writing on my firestone liner only blue lines and liner came saying which end was up .
Like I say makes no difference now, but I wished I had turned it over
 
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Thank you everyone. I didn't expect such a quick and abundant amount of information. I've watched so many videos and read so much, I've gotten myself confused. However the suggestion to slowly fill the pond while being in it seems to make the most sense. Should I notice something wrong I can easily turn the water off and correct it before it gets way out of hand. To those that have used this method, have any of you used the folds as you go to hide the tubing from the pump up to the filter, or any tubing for that matter? I had planned on covering the minimal amount of tubing with stone or gravel, but am curious about hiding it in the folds of the liner. As far as the underlayment I really don't remember seeing a weight or thickness listed when shopping around at the various sites on line. If you don't mind and have the information in your head, how thick is the 8oz and 6oz that you have used? I do remember reading a suggestion that it be a minimum of 1/2" but again I've never seen a reference to that in ads. Thanks again for all your help.

FYI, I live in Connecticut so I will be using an external pressurized filter and submersible pump hence the need for the plumbing.

Bill
 
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My 8 oz underlayment is still in a box but I doubt it is 1/2 inches. It is probably twice the thickness of 4 oz underlayment.

Graystone Creations has specs on 4,6 and 8 oz underlayment. I think the strength properties they list are more important than thickness. http://www.graystonecreations.com/Geotextile-Underlayment-Product-Detail_c_345.html

If the seller doesn't specify I would assume 4 oz. I would go with @Meyer Jordan 6 oz recommendation. I read somewhere that there is little advantage beyond 7 oz. I opted for 8 oz because I found it for about the same price that I could get 6 oz underlayment at BTL Liners http://www.btlliners.com/product/8-oz-geotextile-overlayment-underlayment-fabric-custom/
 

sissy

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I used roofing felt first then underlayment .After the moles decided my liner was keeping them away from the grubs they chewed hole in it .So first a whole bag of milky spore
 
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zeuspaul... Thanks for that information. I had found some last night after reading Meyer Jordan's posts. Like you I figured the 6 oz would be a nice compromise. Plus I too have been unable to find any underlayment that list the thickness, much less 1/2" which would seem awfully thick and difficult to form. Again even after all the searching I've done, you have given me a couple I had not yet found so thank you again for your post.

sissy...how did using the roofing felt work out? I had actually thought of using that as my underlayment when I first started planning this, so with having that and the underlayment I'd assume your pretty confident of any normal damage to the liner.

Again to all who have taken your time to post your valuable information and pictures (Jimmy Gibson wow that's a big pond, nice!!) I just want to say thank you again and let you all know how much I appreciate your help and kindness in your posts........seems to be a lot of very knowledgeable and VERY NICE people here.

Thanks again, Bill
 

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