Food for thought myths about ponds busted

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We use this company to buy our koi clear Ozonated Gel from and trust them exqlisitely We thought about what is reported on and the myths that they have busted.
Especally about the good folk on here that have problems with Herons (did you know that deep water is nothing to them they can fish from it by jumping in the pond and swimming like a duck ).
But please those of you who turn filters off in the winter pay particular attention to what they say .

http://www.koicarp.org.uk/koi_carp_myths.htm

It makes for very interesting reading then you can make your own minds up about what you do with your filters during winter .
There are many other interesting myths about fish keeping they have busted , we would really like to start a debate about what they say in the hope that some of what is said is taken up by people as safe sound fishkeeping practice
.

Dave
 
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It was an interesting read. I did shut one filter down this year. The bog. The bio is still running. All the fish stay on the side that has no filter running. Under the snow and ice.
 

crsublette

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Pretty much agree with most of it, that is 11 points. It is one of the more "down to earth" myth buster articles I have read, but I also think they purposefully, as persuaded by my own paranoia, left out material so to make their case more persuasive, which is quite typical in these type of articles.

They also should have made a point about myth busting the notion of "slopped bottom ponds".

From my perspective, a few thoughts on 4 out of the 15 points :



Article Point #7 : You should dip your new Koi in a suitable chemical bath before introducing it into your pond ....

If you buy your Koi from a reputable Koi only dealer – and you should NEVER buy Koi from a Garden centre or Aquatic chain – then the Koi will have been properly quarantined and treated for parasites and rested for at least a month to ensure that it is healthy when collected and free of disease.

True, however, they willingly over look the concern of "old pond" syndrome and the facts that those koi are leaving the Dealer's pond disease and parasite free, which is not the only reason to quarantine new fish.

As all ponds age, they create their own "ecosystem", which will contain various concentrations of contanimants and other unknown microorganisms and water chemistry that other ponds will not have. The fish already in the pond has adapted to the "old pond" conditions. However, this does not mean a new fish will instantly adapt and remain healthy to the "old pond" conditions.

If the new fish struggles adapting to the new pond's "ecosystem" and water chemistry, then this stresses the fish, which inevitably lowers its immune system and osmoregulatory abilities, and then this leaves the initially "disease free, parasite free" fish extremely susceptible to infections from very basic microorganisms that healthy fish easily overcome and the "old" fish in the pond easily overcome as well.

Irrelevant from where the fish came from, they should have still recommended to quarantine the new fish in a seperate tank with "old pond" water, not with a chemical bath, and the tank preferably with another fish from the "old pond". If any problems should arise, then it will be easier to treat the new fish in the smaller quarantine tank environment with the proper treatments.



Article Point #12 : Pumped filter systems can be just as good as Gravity systems.

It’s a no brainer.

Sure, if there is an assumed design in play here on both sides...

Also, the author conveniently leaves out the disadvantages, which are quite costly to some pond owners, to gravity systems. Gravity systems require the main mechnical filtration pieces to be below the pond's water level. This means these components will have to be in a pit or the pond will need to be a raised pond, which both can be quite expensive endeavors dependent on the owner's context.

Nowadays, there are options out there there that have perfected the pump-driven filter systems (such as the zakki sieve + MC50), which avoid the oxtail soup and tiny suspended solids. Even without these devices, a S&G filter (which gravity flow systems also often have after the settlement chamber), which is easily cleaned out with a blower, will work quite fine at removing those tiny suspended solids after the pump, that is as long as the water prior to the pump is fed through a prefilter (which there are above ground options available and can be easily DIY'd) without restricting the pump too much.

Even after a settlement chamber, which a properly designed and installed one can be expensive as well and area consuming, there is still tiny suspended solids. This is why there are quite often polishing pads or another "device" used to further refine the water in the gravity flow system.

Just like with any system, even including gravity flow systems, there is a right and wrong way to design them all and they each require the appropriate equipment. When properly designed, pump fed filter systems do not require anymore maintenance nor more expensive UV devices than a gravity fed system.



Article Point #13 : Aerated bottom drains are the best way to aerate a pond and improve the efficiency of the bottom drain.

I think their concerns are exaggerated and entirely dependent on the type of bottom drains installed and the type of diffusers installed.

As far as the aeration impact on pulling debris to the bottom drain, when the aeration was off, I have seen fine debris accumulating a few inches away from the bottom drain. When the aeration is turned on, I absolutely have seen experimental trials of sand accumulations being swept into the bottom drain.

If the aerated bottom drain is causing murkiness due to tiny particulates remaining in suspension, then this means the filtration lacks polishing devices, which a settlement chamber is not a polishing device.



Article Point #14 : Its best to turn over the volume of the pond through the filter at least every hour.

As with any general rule, there are situations that change them, called exceptions to the general rule.

Obviously, when the biological filtration is failing, then there will be growing ammonia and nitrite reading. Obviously, when there are more fish in the pond, then there will be more production of ammonia and nitrite. So, at any time they register ammonia and nitrite, then they only increase their biological filtration or reduce the number of fish in the pond. Hmmm... They apparently are not aware of the chemical engineering idiom, "pollutant equilibrium".

Filtration will only process what it is given and the "turn over rate" is the volume that is given to the filtration. When the pollution created in the pond is equal to what the filtration receives from the pond to process, then there will be an equilibrium reached in the system. There is a point, dependent on biological matter or fish or filtration capacity or pond turn over rate, when this equilibrium favors the pollution volume and so there will be an increased reading of pollution.

There are very good reasons why highly stocked systems, such as one 14" inch fish per 50 gallons, have a higher turnover rate and it is not due to poor filtration devices.


I do not like the term "overstocked" since it assumes far too much. Also, when someone says their pond is "quite heavily stocked", as the author has done, without additional details or a very quick concise sentence as to what they think is "quite heavily stocked", they are often blowing smoke in the reader's eyes.
 
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Charles my friend as usual you attention to detail is second to non , I wholey agree with many of your points however I think they over simplified most of what was being said because unlike our good selves many koi keepers would quickly loose interest in a long winded version and as such they have stuck to the basics to make it more appealing.
I put them up to make a point to what is considered normal practice switching off filters in winter which is a no no
We have to remember someything I found hard on this site to start with , in that many folk are exactly what they say they are "Garden pond enthusiasts" and are not as we are "koi enthusiasts", there is a big difference between the two halves of our hobby .
but the points are there for folk to take in should they wish too

Dave.
 

crsublette

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Yep, I understand, but the reason these type of articles are so often ridiculed is due to how the explanation is simplified and adversarial, which create holes in the narrative, and this can leave the reader with bad advice depending on how the author creates the holes and how the reader "fills in the holes". The adversarial nature of some of these articles can be downright insulting and the simplicity is what turns them into a joke. The reason I find this article more "down to the earth" is due to it not being so adversarial.

The article could have made quite concise, still informative, statements that would still not have lost the interest of readers. Actually, by being more thorough and concise, I think their myth busting would have been even more persuasive to even the hobby begginers.
 

crsublette

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What is this about? And I'm assuming you meant to say "sloped" :)

Sorry Mrs. TM. Hope that misspelling does not deduct too much from my grade since I was hoping to stay in the school's Glee club. o_O:eek: (just play'n) :D

Yeah, "sloped bottom ponds" is a particular pond design recommendation that I see is also often debated, that somewhat goes in the same vein as the article's point #13, that is "helps improve the efficiency of bottom drains". I am not on either side of this particular debate subject, but I found it odd that they mentioned aerated bottom drains "efficiency impact on bottom drains" while not making a quick reference to the pond bottom being sloped or flat. I am not on any particular side of the "sloped bottom pond" design point since I think both sides have equally good points, which leads me to believe it is purely more of a perspective dependent on the pond's owner.

From my perspective, where sloping would be a requirement, then sloping should be used in areas, such as around sharp corners, corners at the bottom where the wall meets the floor, or around obstructions so that "dead space" is not created that allows settled debris to accumulate and potentially cause problems when fish knock the debris loose, dependent on how much debris was allowed to accumulate and remain stagnant for some time prior to being disturbed by the fish.
 
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I have a gravity fed pond with flat bottom and an areator that was with the pond when we first bought it from its use as a koi dealershipQT pond making it eons old and have no difficulty with any .
The only problem we have had was that the spindrifter was retofitted into the new bottom drain and it used to pop out of its mounting all the time.
It was solved with some quick thinking a pressure washer and some pond paint the pressure washer was to blast clean a traffic cone weight prior to it being painted with 4 coats of pond paint.
It sits snuggly over the spindrifter holding it down in the bottom drain, it doesnt impead detritus making its was into the bottom drain and the air comes up through the hole in the middle its held it in place for 5 years with no problems lol

Dave
 
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Sorry Mrs. TM. Hope that misspelling does not deduct too much from my grade since I was hoping to stay in the school's Glee club. o_O:eek: (just play'n) :D

Yeah, "sloped bottom ponds" is a particular pond design recommendation that I see is also often debated, that somewhat goes in the same vein as the article's point #13, that is "helps improve the efficiency of bottom drains". I am not on either side of this particular debate subject, but I found it odd that they mentioned aerated bottom drains "efficiency impact on bottom drains" while not making a quick reference to the pond bottom being sloped or flat. I am not on any particular side of the "sloped bottom pond" design point since I think both sides have equally good points, which leads me to believe it is purely more of a perspective dependent on the pond's owner.

From my perspective, where sloping would be a requirement, then sloping should be used in areas, such as around sharp corners, corners at the bottom where the wall meets the floor, or around obstructions so that "dead space" is not created that allows settled debris to accumulate and potentially cause problems when fish knock the debris loose, dependent on how much debris was allowed to accumulate and remain stagnant for some time prior to being disturbed by the fish.
I believe sloping the bottom of a pond helps move debris towards the bottom drain. But I also believe some water movement is also needed to facilitate the movement of debris down the slope, but what pond doesn't have any natural water movement?
My last pond had sloped sides, but no bottom drain. Guess where 99% of the mulm ended up in that pond?,,,,,,,, It was during one of the many bottom scooping chores of that pond that I decided the next pond I built would have a bottom drain, and a sloping bottom drain.
 

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