GH & KH levels of Well Water vs Softened Water. Water softener possibly removing too much Ca & Mg.

[Pondguy]

We just recently added the API GH & KH liquid drop test kit to our testing equipment and the results have been a surprise to say the least.

We have other test kits that test total hardness only. We thought we had a good idea of our hardness range and accepted the fact that we have hard well water as a source.

Because of this we have a resin bead (+) na cl regenerate softener which over lengthy discussions have opted to use instead of raw hard well water because of the benefits of na cl.

Yesterday I tested the water with the API KH & GH drops as per the instructions, KH then GH.

The KH titrated 12 drops with both color changes as expected from instructions. (Results posted below from pond log.)

The GH titrated less than 1 drop. Complete colour change immediately!!

I retested several times to confirm and changed out sources of water to test to again verify.

Below are the findings from my pond log.


GH & KH TESTING RESULTS AND SURPRISE



June 5th 2024



API Test Kit for KH and GH



POOL SAMPLE



KH = 12 drops of KH Test Solution = °dKH 12 = KH 214.8



GH doesn’t react orange to green. Never turns orange and is green from 1st drop.



GH = 0-1 drops of GH Test Solution = ° dKH 0-1 = 0-17.9



Confused by results!!



Test Well water/pre softener and Tap water / softened water



WELL WATER



GH Test drops reacted as per instructions orange to green



GH = 17 Drops = 17° dKH = GH 304.3



KH = 12 Drops = 12° dKH = KH 214.8





TAP WATER FROM WATER SOFNER



GH = 0-1 drops. No orange colour to titrate green = 0-1° dKH = GH 0-17.9 max



KH = 12 drops = 12° dKH = KH 214.8





POND WATER



KH = 10 Drops = 10° dH = KH 179



GH = 4 Drops = 4° dKH = KH 71.6






For now we have decided to add well water through a garden spray nozzle on mist for aeration with the goal to raise the GH.

In a week or so we are considering cautiously adding RO water in measured amounts to slowly dilute KH/GH all while continuing to add well water to maintain GH as needed.

The Ph would be a byproduct using the well water and ro water as a treatment to balance GH&KH around 100 ppm appx. And going from a ph currently 8.3 down to hopefully 7.9.

We wish our source water wasn’t so challenging as mixing up this water solution seems a little bit over kill but necessary. Other than trucking in a tank of soft raw water we aren’t sure what to do?

We are thinking about investigating alternate water treatment systems for our situation that would do a better job than a bead type softener for our ponds and hot tub. There has to be a better water treatment solution than we currently have?

 

[JRS]

I have similarly hard water/high pH through the local utility. A high stable is pH in that range is not normally a concern unless you are dealing with sensitive livestock. KH good for pH stability and as long as you have some GH in the pond as you do, I would not be too concerned.

In my area, typically the outdoor taps are cold hard water, not run through the water softener to save on salt and since softened water is usually not needed outside. I take it all of your water is through the softener?

Because my hard water is so stable I just let it be tempered by the rainwater, sometimes large amounts, and have never noticed any issues.

The Fish Keeper’s Guide to pH, GH, and KH | Water Chemistry 101

This practical guide for beginners explains what these water chemistry terms mean, when you should test for them, and how to raise or lower them if needed.

www.aquariumcoop.com

 

[Pondguy]

I have similarly hard water/high pH through the local utility. A high stable is pH in that range is not normally a concern unless you are dealing with sensitive livestock. KH good for pH stability and as long as you have some GH in the pond as you do, I would not be too concerned. In my area, typically the outdoor taps are cold hard water, not run through the water softener to save on salt and since softened water is usually not needed outside.

The Fish Keeper’s Guide to pH, GH, and KH | Water Chemistry 101

This practical guide for beginners explains what these water chemistry terms mean, when you should test for them, and how to raise or lower them if needed.

www.aquariumcoop.com

Yes I agree with everything you said.

I forgot to mention that the Pool is holding fish from Pond #1 until Pond #2 is ready for the transfer In the next month.

We are hooking up filter/UV to the Pool to start the bio filter. We are hoping to time establishing a bio filter with the filling of Pond #2 in the next 30 days.


The Pond #1 has same source of water as the Pool but I believe Pond #1 is picking up just enough GH from the ground water run off.

Pond #1 also has rocks and gravel ( gravel to be removed/minimized asap) vs the Pool being vinyl With no rocks.

We have Koi in the Pool awaiting their transfer to Pond #2 under construction. We had them in Pond #1 with Comets but have outgrown Pond #1.

My surprise was learning the source water has no GH and Pond #1 always tested GH and gets it from a different source.

With Koi in the Pool with a GH of appx 17.9 ppm and KH of 214.8 ppm I would assume the results to be a Red flag?

 

[WaterGardener]

We also have hard water, but like @JRS we don't use water from the water softener system for the pond.

Many koi breeders want the GH as low as possible, but I don't recall why at this moment. That would suggest to me that it's not a major issue.

Your pH is fine. Don't be concerned about that. Many of us keep our KH at 200 or above and that keeps the pH at 8.3

Is there a reason you don't use the untreated well water for the ponds?

If you feel you have to raise the GH, that can be done with using calcium chloride and Epsom salts.

 

[Pondguy]

We also have hard water, but like @JRS we don't use water from the water softener system for the pond.

Many koi breeders want the GH as low as possible, but I don't recall why at this moment. That would suggest to me that it's not a major issue.

Your pH is fine. Don't be concerned about that. Many of us keep our KH at 200 or above and that keeps the pH at 8.3

Is there a reason you don't use the untreated well water for the ponds?

If you feel you have to raise the GH, that can be done with using calcium chloride and Epsom salts.

Great question and one we have gone back and forth over many times. Why do we use the softened water instead of the well water?

The well water stains the rocks white with Calcium and Magnesium even in a glass of water left over night. The fish also seem to flash more with our well water assumably because of the hardness. The lawn grows better with softened salt and reading about salt dosing and salt dips I assumed na cl was the lesser of the two evils compared to ca mg.

Thanks for sharing your pH and KH those are similar and where we are without fussing around with the water as I have been guilty for in the past and probably have been again.

The results just were not expected and really got my attention.

Thanks

 

[GBBUDD]

The Ph would be a byproduct using the well water and ro water as a treatment to balance GH&KH around 100 ppm appx. And going from a ph currently 8.3 down to hopefully 7.9.

Nothing wrong with a ph of 8.3 its fluctuations of ph that kills. and a kh oh 200 is a dream to most

 

[Pondguy]

Thanks for all of the feedback!!

We are feeling better about the water parameters and have taken for granted our water’s ability to resist pH change.

Our KH takes significant effort to lower pH especially in Pond #1 with the Waterfall which I have given up trying to lower over the last couple years.

When we set up the swimming pool for us in the summer I have been successful controlling the pH And since we have set up the transfer pool For the Koi waiting to go to Pond #2 I have been itching to try and make the best water possible for our pond puppies.

I always feel like I can make the water parameters better but usually find doing less is best as I have made some mistakes in the past and now resist the urge to over treat the water.

i will sit on my hands for a while and just enjoy the show.

 

[GBBUDD]

Our KH takes significant effort to lower pH especially in Pond #1 with the Waterfall which I have given up trying to lower over the last couple years.

There is ZERO NADA NONE NO REASON TO LOWER YOUR KH YOUR BEST BREEDERS KEEP THE KH OVER 200

 

[GBBUDD]

but usually find doing less is best

PATIENCE IS A VIRTUE and in ponding it is the difference between what works and what doesn't

 

[GBBUDD]

i will sit on my hands for a while and just enjoy the show.

wise words

 

[Pondguy]

I just wanted to update this post with my recent findings in the quest for the best water quality possible in my given situation.

We have hard well water mostly calcium and Magnesium pH 7.8

We have a standard bread type water softener and have been using the cheap salt for years and our pH raises to 8.3 pH.

I am doing a test run with expensive Potassium Salt and our pH is now the same as the source well water 7.8pH.

GH % KH levels the same between either nacl or kcl regeneration salts.

I never would have guessed nacl would raise the pH that much!!

If you have similar water quality and want to get the pH down without using pH down products …. Changing softener salt might be a good option…

 

[WaterGardener]

That's fine, but there is really no reason to lower the pH. A pH of 8.3 is good and won't cause any problems for your pond. No need to fix something that isn't broken.

 

[Pondguy]

Yes I agree and understand that saying and apply it always.

8.3 pH is our low side of our daily pH swings. We test around 8:00 am for our records.

The High Side pm test we swing up to 8.9pH

This is in a start up pool where we are establishing a bio filter.

I know this is not a normal scenario as we have been doing daily water changes to keep Nh3 in check and why we have been testing so much due to having fish in the start up pool.


I have been stressing the whole time and battling Nh3 I have been trying to keep the pH as low as I can especially having the warming trend Lately.

Nh3 levels started falling the other day finally so feeling better about that Now just have to hope the nitrite comes on easy but will keep flushing if I have too.

 

[WaterGardener]

Still no problem. Anything below 10 is good.

 

[Pondguy]

Wow ok. I have been way over concerned.

Thanks