Goldfish dying...one had large white patches, lying on bottom

[tricia75]

I have lost two gold fish this week. They have been in this pond for a few years. One of the larger fish (about 7 or 8 inches) slowly developed large white patches but was acting quite normal. A few days ago he started lying on the bottom listing from side to side. His tail was always moving, but it seemed like his fins were clamped. He was eating algae, but would not come up for pellets. I did see him come to the top once.

We treated the pond with Melafix that day. His condition was unchanged the next day. After much research, I could not figure out what might be wrong with him. So I started treatment with PimaFix as well. He died the next day.

I continued with the reduced recommended dosage of Melafix and Pimafix for the next two days. During the day today a second fish died. We examined it and it looked perfect. No issues with scales, spots, fins, etc. Not a mark on him. All of the fish acted normal when we fed them this morning.

I checked the water on Sunday with a PondCare test kit

Ammonia = 0
Nitrates = 0
pH 8.2
Phosphates = between 1 and 2 ppm

The pond was professionally cleaned and set back up in early May.

We feed pellets and they are fed two per day, but only as much as they will immediately consume.

Pond is about 750 gallons with a liner and a few plants that have been in the pond for several years. The pond was established about ten years ago by the previous owner of our home.

Currently have 13 gold fish (4 inches to 9 inches) and one small koi (about 7 inches)

The photos attached are of the fish that was ill before he died.

 

[callingcolleen1]

Sorry to hear about your dead fish. I tooI had a fish in the bottom pond that had some injury and got fungus (white patches) . The fish may have been injured in spawning or something, and most likely received an injury. may be a rock fell off and injured him. When they spawn they can get quite rough and I have even seen goldfish in the bottom pond that jumped to their death while in a spanning frenzy. When fish get injured they get white fungus, and fungus is to fish, what Infection is to humans.... it can be deadly...
I treated the whole pond with all natural liquid pond peat concentrate. Laguna sells it and I got a bottle and poured the whole thing in the pond system. I have three large connecting ponds. The pond water turned very dark for a couple of days, then cleared and this fish was much better! Pond peat is a all natural fungicide and will kill off the fungus like antibiotics kills off an infection in humans. The fish is much better now, but there was a time I thought he would surely die! Next time try the all natural Liquid Pond Peat.

 

[callingcolleen1]

The fish is also much better now and the water is all back to crystal clear!

 

[Dave 54]

Tricia may I ask where your from in the world , we are from Plymouth UK if your in the UK what area as it may have some bearing on your pond.
Firstly we dont rate melafix or primafix as an effective treatment it takes far to long to work in our eyes yes its natural and not chemical but sometimes chemical is the way forwards .
We need to ask you some searching questions to try and get to the bottom of your problem
What size is your pond in gallons please ?
When was the last time you did a partial water change (we do a weekly 40% change on our own 1,000 gallon pond) to give you an idea of how often ?
Do you run an airpump on the pond and how many airstones do you have in the pond ?
First can you tell me a little about your pond as mistakes are often made through lack of maintenance when was the last time you did any i at all ?
Does your pond havea bottom drain ?
If it doesnt how much gunk is in the bottom of the pond by gunk I mean dead leaves fish detritus etc have you ever cleaned the bottom of the pond?
Filters what type do you have and when was the last time it was cleaned please.?
What test kits are you using drop or test strip , if your using the test strips they are highly inaccurate drop test kits are far better at reading your ponds perameters , we use API which I think you may well have ?
Have you a U/V-C on your pond if so when was the last time you changed the bulb you have to do it on a yearly basis as they become worn out after a year ?
Have you had any heavy rainfall in your area of late ?
Lastly do you Quarentine your fish prior to them going into your pond how long do you QT them for and when was the last time you added any new fish to your pond ?
All these questions enable us to veiw your pond in our minds eye to see just what is and isnt being done thus any mistakes you may have made leading to your fishes problems .
Can you catch onof the infected fish and take a photo of it as dead fish tell no tales live ones show you their problem

Dave .

 

[tricia75]

Tricia may I ask where your from in the world , we are from Plymouth UK if your in the UK what area as it may have some bearing on your pond. <I am in Michigan, USA>

Firstly we dont rate melafix or primafix as an effective treatment it takes far to long to work in our eyes yes its natural and not chemical but sometimes chemical is the way forwards .
We need to ask you some searching questions to try and get to the bottom of your problem
What size is your pond in gallons please ? <about 750 - 850 gallons>

When was the last time you did a partial water change (we do a weekly 40% change on our own 1,000 gallon pond) to give you an idea of how often ? <75% water change in the spring (May), pond loses an inch or two of water a week and we use some of the water for plants, so it ends up being about a 10% water change a week.>
Do you run an airpump on the pond and how many airstones do you have in the pond ? <we have three waterfalls that provide aeration, no airstones. It has been this way for the ten years that the previous owner of the home has had the pond>
First can you tell me a little about your pond as mistakes are often made through lack of maintenance when was the last time you did any i at all ? <The pond is professionally maintained by a koi pond spercialist twice a year. The last time was in May>
Does your pond havea bottom drain ? <yes>
If it doesnt how much gunk is in the bottom of the pond by gunk I mean dead leaves fish detritus etc have you ever cleaned the bottom of the pond? <Again twice a year, plus we skim leaves and other debries before it gets to the bottom. The pond has a liner and there is some algae on it, but no build up of anything else.>
Filters what type do you have and when was the last time it was cleaned please.? <non-carbon media filter and in May>
What test kits are you using drop or test strip , if your using the test strips they are highly inaccurate drop test kits are far better at reading your ponds perameters , we use API which I think you may well have ? <Test Kit from PondCare (API), not test strips>
Have you a U/V-C on your pond if so when was the last time you changed the bulb you have to do it on a yearly basis as they become worn out after a year ? <yes, and it was changed in May. Currently off as we have been treating the pond>
Have you had any heavy rainfall in your area of late ? <nothing of note, we had a lot of rain this spring, but that did not seem to impact the fish at all. >
Lastly do you Quarentine your fish prior to them going into your pond how long do you QT them for and when was the last time you added any new fish to your pond ? <one new fish was addedd this year. He was quarentined for a few weeks. I know it should have been longer, but I had to go out of town unexpectedly and had to get him in hte main pond sooner. The new fish is doing very well and has been in the pond for about 40 days now.>
All these questions enable us to veiw your pond in our minds eye to see just what is and isnt being done thus any mistakes you may have made leading to your fishes problems .
Can you catch onof the infected fish and take a photo of it as dead fish tell no tales live ones show you their problem

Dave .

I think I answered most of those questions in my original post, but answers are above in bold as well for ease of reading. Photos of the only fish that had outward signs of illness are attached to the original post. The fish the died yesterday was acting normal in the morning. We inspected the body and he looked perfect. All of his scales were perfect, eyes clear, to bumps, spots, marks, or anything else on him.

 

[tricia75]

Sorry to hear about your dead fish. I tooI had a fish in the bottom pond that had some injury and got fungus (white patches) . The fish may have been injured in spawning or something, and most likely received an injury. may be a rock fell off and injured him. When they spawn they can get quite rough and I have even seen goldfish in the bottom pond that jumped to their death while in a spanning frenzy. When fish get injured they get white fungus, and fungus is to fish, what Infection is to humans.... it can be deadly...
I treated the whole pond with all natural liquid pond peat concentrate. Laguna sells it and I got a bottle and poured the whole thing in the pond system. I have three large connecting ponds. The pond water turned very dark for a couple of days, then cleared and this fish was much better! Pond peat is a all natural fungicide and will kill off the fungus like antibiotics kills off an infection in humans. The fish is much better now, but there was a time I thought he would surely die! Next time try the all natural Liquid Pond Peat.

What did the fungus look like? These white patches just looked like white scales. The melafix and pimafix are organic as well and seem to get a lot of excellent reviews, although they did not solve my problem. What is more concerning is that the second fish looked/acted perfectly healthy and just turned up dead.

Makes me worry about the rest of the pond. I will look into the produc thtat you recommended today.

 

[Dave 54]

It appears to me the pond bottom hasnt been cleaned since you took it over am a right ?
Ponds need to be cleaned by use of a pond vacuum on a regular basis any dead leaves etc to be taken out and the pond prepared for the winter , filters need to be constatly cleaned at regular intervals
I asked what gallonage because there is a difference between the UK which is in imperial measurements and the US measurents that is why I also asked where you are from however could you please answer the questions I posted :-

When was the last time you did a partial water change (we do a weekly 40% change on our own 1,000 gallon pond) to give you an idea of how often ?
Do you run an airpump on the pond and how many airstones do you have in the pond ?
First can you tell me a little about your pond as mistakes are often made through lack of maintenance when was the last time you did any i at all ?
Does your pond havea bottom drain ?
If it doesnt how much gunk is in the bottom of the pond by gunk I mean dead leaves fish detritus etc have you ever cleaned the bottom of the pond?
Filters what type do you have and when was the last time it was cleaned please.?
What test kits are you using drop or test strip , if your using the test strips they are highly inaccurate drop test kits are far better at reading your ponds perameters , we use API which I think you may well have ?
Have you a U/V-C on your pond if so when was the last time you changed the bulb you have to do it on a yearly basis as they become worn out after a year ?
Have you had any heavy rainfall in your area of late ?
Lastly do you Quarentine your fish prior to them going into your pond how long do you QT them for and when was the last time you added any new fish to your pond ?
All these questions enable us to veiw your pond in our minds eye to see just what is and isnt being done thus any mistakes you may have made leading to your fishes problems .
Can you catch onof the infected fish and take a photo of it as dead fish tell no tales live ones show you their problem

Thank you in advance

Dave

 

[callingcolleen1]

White fungus looks like cotton hanging from fish. Only my one fish had it and is making a good recovery now. I have used liquid pond peat for many years and it is also very good for the plants and fish and the whole pond! If more of your fish are getting the same thing, then it could be something else. From the pictures you posted, I see the sides of the fish seem to be affected mainly, leading me to believe that this was an injury of some sort. Have any rocks slid away and dropped into pond lately?

 

[callingcolleen1]

Also if the injury was bad, they could have succumbed to internal injuries before the fungus began. Fungus typically can show up several days after the injury, like infection does to humans.
Are the rest of the fish fine?

 

[tricia75]

Not sure if you saw my full response previously, I do answer all of your questions inline. You may have to click the "click to expand" link ion the bottom of the pink box. Summary of answers below.

We moved in the house in November and had the pond professionally cleaned and prepared for winter in November. We had a terrible winter, so it took until early May for the water temperatures to break into the 50's. We had the pond cleaned, and set up for summer in May by the same company that has been maintaining it for years. We regularly remove leaves and while there is some algae on the bottom, there is not a build up of anything else.

The pond is between 750 and 850 US gallons.

It has a liner, no rocks, a media filter (not carbon), UV flight with new bulb in May, three waterfalls for aeration. We have several plants in the pond as well.

The pond naturally loses a few inches of water a month and we use some of the water for plants, so that results in about a 10% water change per week.

The test kit I used is from PondCare/API, it was not test strips.

No rainfall out of the ordinary in the last month. We had a lot of rain this spring, but that did not seem to impact the fish in any way.

One new koi added this year. I was only able to quarentine for a few weeks do to unforseen circumstances. He has been in the pond for about six weeks now and looks/acts very healthy. He has been growing like crazy!

I only feed pelleted koi/goldfish food from reputable sources.

I have one koi (about 6 or 7 inches now) and 13 goldfish (most in the 4 - 5inch range including tail, and a few is the 7 - 9 inch range)

Are you able to see the photos that were included in the original post?

Thanks!

It appears to me the pond bottom hasnt been cleaned since you took it over am a right ?
Ponds need to be cleaned by use of a pond vacuum on a regular basis any dead leaves etc to be taken out and the pond prepared for the winter , filters need to be constatly cleaned at regular intervals
I asked what gallonage because there is a difference between the UK which is in imperial measurements and the US measurents that is why I also asked where you are from however could you please answer the questions I posted :-

When was the last time you did a partial water change (we do a weekly 40% change on our own 1,000 gallon pond) to give you an idea of how often ?
Do you run an airpump on the pond and how many airstones do you have in the pond ?
First can you tell me a little about your pond as mistakes are often made through lack of maintenance when was the last time you did any i at all ?
Does your pond havea bottom drain ?
If it doesnt how much gunk is in the bottom of the pond by gunk I mean dead leaves fish detritus etc have you ever cleaned the bottom of the pond?
Filters what type do you have and when was the last time it was cleaned please.?
What test kits are you using drop or test strip , if your using the test strips they are highly inaccurate drop test kits are far better at reading your ponds perameters , we use API which I think you may well have ?
Have you a U/V-C on your pond if so when was the last time you changed the bulb you have to do it on a yearly basis as they become worn out after a year ?
Have you had any heavy rainfall in your area of late ?
Lastly do you Quarentine your fish prior to them going into your pond how long do you QT them for and when was the last time you added any new fish to your pond ?
All these questions enable us to veiw your pond in our minds eye to see just what is and isnt being done thus any mistakes you may have made leading to your fishes problems .
Can you catch onof the infected fish and take a photo of it as dead fish tell no tales live ones show you their problem

Thank you in advance

Dave

 

[tricia75]

The fish that acted ill and died did not have anything fuzzy on him. The white patches on the scales were smooth, they just looked like the scales turned white (see photos in original post). The second fish that died yesterday acted healthy, and looked perfect when we took him out of the pond. No injuries, marks, etc.

We did have a heron that has tried, unsuccessfully, to catch fish in the pond. We did get a decoy and have not seen him in a few weeks. The fish were also fearful and would hide for a day after he had been there and they have not displayed that behavior since we got the decoy, so it is unlikely that he has been back.

We check/feed the fish twice a day, we also take a head count and ensure everyone is eating and looks normal at each feeding.

Also if the injury was bad, they could have succumbed to internal injuries before the fungus began. Fungus typically can show up several days after the injury, like infection does to humans.
Are the rest of the fish fine?

 

[dieselplower]

Dave geez slow down and read the posts my friend! She has answered every question twice!

 

[Dave 54]

Dave geez slow down and read the posts my friend! She has answered every question twice!

Sorry bud dont know what the hell is wrong with me today its blisteringly hot and I dont seem to be able to concentrate for long ,plus I'm still on Calvin and his problems I've a feeling its a combination of my meds and the heat catch up tonight ok


Dave

 

[dieselplower]

Sorry bud dont know what the hell is wrong with me today its blisteringly hot and I dont seem to be able to concentrate for long ,plus I'm still on Calvin and his problems I've a feeling its a combination of my meds and the heat catch up tonight ok


Dave

Lol hey it happens to us all from time to time!

 

[Dave 54]

Lol hey it happens to us all from time to time!

Ended up taking a sieasta it was 26.7c on the outdoor thermometer and the pond 25c which we have never seen before my friend , thankfully have been pumping extra air into the pond for quite a while now since the thread I did about it .
Tricia I have a feeling you may have a Parasite called Trichodina, which is seen at times of temperature change, it is found in ponds with a buildup of Sediment detritus and Mulm which until your pond was profesionally cleaned was a fact yes ?
Large numbers of the tichodina parasites can cause damge to a fishes skin leaving wite patches .
This in turn aids the spread of te Trichodina Parasite which leaves the fish prone to bacteria which the parsite in turn use as a sourrce of food for them to feed on ,
This parasite swims from host to host however there are tell tail signs if it is like you fish flashing or rubbing itself against the sides of the pond or rocks .
Have you noticed a whitish haze around the fishes head which is causd by the fish producing excess mucus ?
Trichodina will also attack the gils o your fish leaving them weak and lifeless hanging in the water or by waterfalls , have you noticed any of these symptoms if leaft untreated Trichodin will kill ?
Good husbadry of your pond and filters will prevent it, plus QTing all new additions for a period of time would also he;lp
Trouble is we'd need a scrape of the fishes side done, to put under a microscope to see if it is indeed this parasite do you have one or can you get access to one ?
If you can your looking for a parasite that looks like a small circle with hooks around it .
one way of treating this is to give your fish a salt bath for 10-20minutes or so the other way would be to treat the pond wit Potasium Permnganate which seeing as your a relative novice I wouldnt recomend

Dave