Goldfish with huge belly but no pineconing of scales


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Clarifications from my previous post:

At the end of the second-to-last paragraph, I meant to write that there was a "lot" of white skin between her scales, not a "log" of white skin.

Also, my mother and I sat with her for about 45 minutes while she was still alive.
 
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Waterbug, I loved your last post. The "choices" part was hilarious -- thanks for the laughter. I didn't understand why, at first, the link took me where it took me, until I read the next part. Yes, my mother's boyfriend is defintely a keeper. We're all grateful for him in her life (and I'm sure her goldfish are too!) -- she was widowed twice before he came along.

Yes, the world seems cruel sometimes, and yet there's such grace in both the effort and the ultimate surrender.

Thanks to all of you.
 

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Sorry for you Meg and that your pretty fish didn't make it. You did what you could and it's nice that he/she even tho just a goldfish has someone to miss it :luxlove:
 
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I wish you would have cut the fish open to see what you could see. I would have been interested.
 
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I cut the fish open this morning. It was too dark outside to do it last night, and we didn't want to do it in the kitchen or bathroom in case of contamination.

Mostly she was filled like a balloon with red water. I'm unfamiliar with fish anatomy, but we think she also had eggs inside -- clear spheres about the size of small marbles. She also had two empty white, translucent, air-filled balloons, of two different shapes; one was about an inch long; the other slightly longer.

We took photos of it all. I can post them here if a forum administrator requests them and assures me that no one will be too grossed out by them.

I will also email them to people if you request them.

She was still on the bottom of the bucket this morning -- she didn't float to the top, which I suppose had something to do with being so filled with liquid.

Again, thank you for all your responses.
 
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I am so very sorry. Last Fall, we had a similar situation w a possiblly Koi or Koi hybrid. We think it was a she as that is what the previous owner said. She was a beautiful fish deep red and black w a beautiful fantail. We named her Pepper. At any rate, I noticed near the end of Fall, she seemed to get fatter and fatter, at times unable to submerge. Because of the size of the pond, we were unable to catch her and put her in isolation. We have a 24' round above ground pool that was turned into a pond w water lilly's cattails and lots of seaweed (amacharus, hornwort). Trying to net her was impossible as there was just too much area for her to swim to. We closed the pond the early part of winter and wished her well. She was simply a balloon but no pineconing at all. I do not know if she survived through the winter (although it was mild) but late Spring she floated to the surface. She was still in full color or near full color. No way would I cut her opened as she wreaked to high heaven...I just buried her and wished her spirit well. She was such a beautiful fish. I feel your sadness...

:(
 

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Meg;
Sorry to hear about your loss. Yes, it's 'only' a fish, but we do get attached to them!
WB;
Sometimes you actually amaze me! Your 'Choices ' link had me in tears, once I figured it out!! :LOL:
John
 

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I would be interested in seeing the photos here on the forum if it is ok'd by the admins. Always interested in learning and I have cleaned many a fish for eating so would not be grossed out. We can learn from this and maybe help others in the future w/ similar problems.
 
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Meg, Thanks for doing that, I know it isn't easy.

Mostly she was filled like a balloon with red water.
My expectation was fluid, but expect clear. I don't know what it means or cause. Could be just from decomposition.

I'm unfamiliar with fish anatomy, but we think she also had eggs inside -- clear spheres about the size of small marbles.
I'm not sure what this is. In the autopsy pictures of egg bound fish I've seen the cavity was filled with eggs. Eggs are tiny, almost pin head size and grouped in sacks. Being clear and the size of small marbles doesn't sound like eggs to me. This is the "Illness and Disease" forum so you should feel free to post pictures imo.

She also had two empty white, translucent, air-filled balloons, of two different shapes; one was about an inch long; the other slightly longer.
Swim bladders I assume. They sound normal.

The bottom line imo is unknown cause of death which always seem the case for amateurs like me. Because fish live in water being able to balance fluid is a bigger problem for them than we have. So lots of causes can result in a build up of fluid. That the build up seem to happen fast, and the fish died fairly shortly after the distension was noticed, and perhaps the red color to the fluid, I'd guess it was a bacteria infection. If the fluid was yellow or greenish I would be thinking bacteria more so. Whether infection was the cause of the problem or came after the problem started, don't know.
 
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If you can get a copy of the Manual of Fish Health, do so. I recently got a copy and it contains a lot of useful information. Your fish reminds me of some examples they showed of fish with intestinal parasites. Your local pet supply store should have treatments available.

Regarding euthanasia, two common techniques are anesthesia OD and blunt head trauma. I'm not sure if you can get the anesthesia without a veterinarian, and to me bashing an animal's skull in is horrible and barbaric. One possibility is putting the fish and a bit of water in a plastic bag and placing in the freezer. Supposedly hypothermia isn't a bad way to go, and for a cold blooded animal their metabolism shuts down. My heart is with you. It's a terrible feeling to watch an animal suffer and feel powerless to do anything about it.
 
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First off could you let us know all your water prameters Ammonia, Nitrite Nitrate Ph and Kh ?When was the lasst time you did a waterchange ?Can you take a photo of the fish and post it please?Can you look at the fishes vent please,is the area around the vent red and swollen ?Alott of questions I know but its the best way we can get to help you with the problemrgrdsDave
 
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So whatever became of this gold fish? I have the same issue with one of my pond fish. I'll try to post pictures. I do feed with peas, alternating with pellets and blood worms, but the fish is so big it can't swim around. I moved it near a bubbler so that it gets air but like the previous poster, I don't know what to do!!!
 

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Like Dave said, PLEASE post more information about your water parameters, size of pond, number & size of fish, symptoms (and for how long). The more information we have, the better.

I think what's happened, is someone has responded to a year-old thread, then someone else has piggy-backed on as well. The OP's fish didn't make it, but sounds like we have 2 other, separate fish that DO still need help.

In fact, it might be a good idea to re-post.
 
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Gardengirl911 said:
So whatever became of this gold fish? I have the same issue with one of my pond fish. I'll try to post pictures. I do feed with peas, alternating with pellets and blood worms, but the fish is so big it can't swim around. I moved it near a bubbler so that it gets air but like the previous poster, I don't know what to do!!!
Wow that is some serious swelling , no wonder the poor thing cant swim around to be honest I've never come across a fish with this big a swelling .
My personal thoughts about ths fish .....I have a feeling that this has come about over time and that it should have been put online many months ago to see if someone knew what was happening here.
I've a stromg feeling that this fish is suffering what is known as a fatty liver /egg impaction or possibly cystic kidneys if you have a fish vet in your area surgery is recomended .
This is the problem with Fancy goldfish man has changed the fish, sometimes with bodies so sqaushed together that alsorts of problems can arise nines out of ten they are swimbladder related.
Peas and earthworm (chopped) can be used to releave the pressure somewhat because they have a laxative effect on the goldfish .
But I doubt this would happen here, however you never know till you try it .
You must also ask yourself a question here , does this Goldfish have any quality of life the way it is ?
Would it perhaps be a kindness to put the poor fish to sleep ?
We cant answer these problems for you these are the ones allbeit hard I know but sometimes you have to let go.
If you decide to do the right thing by this goldfish buy some oil of cloves and add 10-20ml to your QT tank and let the goldfsh peacefully pass away.that way.
Or you can buy MS222 online and is our anesthetic of choice........

rgrds

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Dave,

Thank you for responding. As I feared, I found my fish deceased this morning. Upon opening her up, so was impacted with eggs, her body was filled with fluid and as you suspected, the liver was enlarged. It may sound silly to say that I live my fish, but this loss has provided me a learning experience should I have similar symptoms with my other fish. I've very familiar with swim bladder issues and have successfully resolved them with the peas treatment, but this fish never demonstrated an inability to remain upright or move about until the last couple if days. She was responsive and lived the peas, but now I know to look for other clues for problems.
 

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May I suggest two really good books for you to buy GardenGirl which will help you identify potential problems such as Parasite Bacterial and Viral diseases .
The first is the first book Val bought me at the start of our hobby and thats the Ibterpet Manual of Fish Health ISBN 1842860674 by Dr Chris Andrews, Adrian Exell and Dr Neville Carrington.
The other Being Fancy Goldfish "A complete guide to care and collecting" ISBN 1859749577 by Dr Erik Johnson DVM and Richard E Hess photo's by Fred Rosenzweig.
Even though I dont keep Goldfish I bought this one to understand them and their health issues a little more.
You can find both on Amazon.
goldfish.jpg
rgrds

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I am finding this thread some 5 years after the original post, and I was so impressed with it that I had to sign up and comment. I was looking for information on conditions other than dropsy that could explain one of our fish’s absurdly round belly.

She has been that way for well over a year, albeit it does seem to grow very gradually, and, like the OP’s mother’s goldfish, she is normal in all other respects. She is also the only fish among the total population with this issue. I did isolate her and treat with Epsom salts some months ago, but it didn’t help, she didn’t worsen over that period, and I coming to the same conclusions as WB (really appreciated your contributions), I returned her to the pond, where she carried on swimmingly (*groan*). I decided to keep a watch on her. Like Meg (your posts were so wonderful, and I am sorry for your heartache, outside the fact that your ability to make an attachment to such a creature is the first wondefulness), I figured I’d be contemplating humane options for euthanasia (thank you to a variety of posters for the suggestion of anesthesia and the name, as well as the clove oil suggestion).

Yesterday, I returned after 2 weeks away, and my husband said he thought she looked a little rounder and seemed to turn on herself. I don’t see the latter, but I decided to take a look online again. Egg impaction, tumor, fluid issues... swim bladder... and what else, eventually? I have cured a goldfish of dropsy, and given that the same treatment didn’t help in this case, and that the eyes and scales are normal, I got curious again. Also, clearly not contagious. In nearly 20 years, we have only had 3 “sick” fish in a population of some 40 fish, so conditions are not the problem. I will also add that we have no filtration system, no pump, only plants and water in an old fountain basin. The size and number of the goldfish is determined by the pond. Frogs have come to live there, a heron feeds in them (we have “lost” some favorites), and even a water snake called it home and “our” frogs his or her source of alimentation. I have saved more than one.

I’d like to thank Dave for the book recommendations. Do they provide information on how to help expluse any impacted eggs? We have males, but whoever knows. My husband is an ob/gyn, specializing in infertility and medically assisted pregnancy, but he honestly has no idea how to remove eggs from a fish.

If I come up with nothing, I will also open her after she dies and post.

This being said, can anyone tell me what becomes of fish who die of natural causes in a fish pond that is not so vast that I’d never see them? I have only once seen a dead fish, and my sick one that didn’t make it died in isolation. Other than that, we have had fish who have been with us since before I arrived 16 years ago, and a rotation, given some disappearances (some of which I attribute to the heron) and new babies every year. For some reason, the frogs are far lower in number, and I no longer see tadpoles.

Thanks, and cheers!

PS: She is even finally turning a lovely gold.

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j.w

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@Sysiphish I had one just like that for years. It started swimming upside down eventually. It ate and swam around but just kept getting fatter. I eventually took it out of my big pond and put it in my bathtub pond w/3 other small goldfish. I just took the 3 goldfish out recently and put them back in the big pond. No sign of the fat one. Nothing could get at it in that tub either as I had chicken wire over the top w/another heavy screen over that. I think it just must have passed away and dissolved. I couldn't bear to kill it so I just let it live out it's life in the tub.
 
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She is indeed absurdly round! I guess if she continued to swim and eat I would just leave her be.

Welcome to the GPF by the way! We'd love to hear more about this little pond of yours - fountain basin you say? And no filtration for all these years - I'd love to see some pictures! I've seen a few goldfish ponds over the years that were similar - just plants, fish and water and everyone lived happy and healthy. Do you feed the fish?

And I must say, if my husband were an ob/gyn I'd tell him to apply his craft and figure it out! haha!
 

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