Yeah I've been on YouTube and I've talked to every contractor and supply house that's open within the past 3 days and it's kind of been a nightmare but it's been a really cool learning experience. I decided not to take on this job but it is something that I definitely want to do in the future so I think that if I hang around this forum and the koi pond form and enroll in a masonry class that's starting in the next couple months then this will be something that I can definitely start getting into cuz it looks really fun and it's a lot better for my landscaping business then just doing weed whacking, cuz it's getting kind of old
Half poured pond
- Thread starter Tbirkey
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I did. Said “don’t do it!” haha
@Tbirkey: I’m no concrete expert, but if you’re dead set on doing it, definitely bust out what’s there and start over. And if you’re taking about a formless pour done with bags from Home Depot, my god you’re in for it I think.
Gonna have to mix a very high slump consistently bag after bag and stay ahead of it setting up on you. Why not at least get a ready mix truck? After a few yards, it’s cheaper than bags and a hell of a lot easier and more consistent.
Just doesn’t sound like a good idea.
Agree w/ @GBBUDD: cinder block is a better idea.
Also, there’s more to the picture than just the concrete. Do you have a plan for filtration? Will you need penetrations through the liner? Most concrete koi ponds have a number of bottom drains, TPRs, etc. penetrating the pour. Gotta get layout just right or you’ll be hurting even more when you have to change it later.
I don’t know your client but if I were in your position, id probably try to sub out out to a reputable builder and then be as hands on as possible to learn the ropes. Would not wing it on my first try, especially after the client has had failure with a prior contractor.
Yeah the problem with this guy is he lives in a house that's valued over a million dollars but hires Dum dums off Craigslist so he can meet his budget with all the stuff that needs to happen around his house, which I think is absolutely insane because some of the problems he has around his house is from high dumdums from Craigslist. Yeah I ended up figuring out most of the stuff, and we were going to go with this previous setup which was just everything was where you could just set it on top of the liner and it would do its job so there was nothing really being ran anywhere. But I really didn't know if I was going to be able to do the concrete quick enough or if I was going to be able to get somebody out there and get them to spray shotcrete or gunite or something and then have enough time to do it or. There just was too much else to calculate and figure out with such a short amount of time if he would have given me another week or two, with all the stuff I got going on I probably would have been able to figure it out and to give him an actual price. I doubt I would have not made any money on it but it would have been cool. In the end I just don't have enough faith in myself or really I have zero experience in concrete so it wasn't something I could just wing and probably make it happen. With these pawns being such a kind of like their own little niche I'm curious how everybody else started doing them I mean it's there's only two guys in my town that do this kind of stuff so if I wouldn't work for them I'm sure they would be totally pissed if I went out and started doing it after a couple months. On the other forms I posted about how people figured out how to do things and learn either through classes or working for free or something so I might try that here on another thread as well.
Never work for free,!!!!!!
There is two ways,
go to work for an established pool builder, OR hire those who know be the manager make 10% for making a phone call.
Been in the building trades all my life, 45 plus years. you have to know when to walk . to build that with a liner we can walk you trough it in text . a concrete build the way you want .. is too much .. even on a small project like yours.
The only way to do this by bag is very tricky . your slump needs to be a 2 very dry and will cure on its own over time. as mentioned before not a first time project. Go with the cinderblocks and anyone skilled in basic trades can figure it out . IF you stager the joints between the rows and then insert a rebar every other bay then fill the bays with a high slump concrete of 7 to 9 so it flows through all the layers and wala a very firm wall. on my showcase if you scroll way down you'll see my build with cinderblock and rebar.
My Showcase can be seen here ---> https://www.gardenpondforum.com/showcase/gbbudds-koi-pond-layout-and-full-build.141/
in case you don't know after the concrete is poured blown and shaped you then have a skim coat of plaster to go
There is two ways,
go to work for an established pool builder, OR hire those who know be the manager make 10% for making a phone call.
Been in the building trades all my life, 45 plus years. you have to know when to walk . to build that with a liner we can walk you trough it in text . a concrete build the way you want .. is too much .. even on a small project like yours.
The only way to do this by bag is very tricky . your slump needs to be a 2 very dry and will cure on its own over time. as mentioned before not a first time project. Go with the cinderblocks and anyone skilled in basic trades can figure it out . IF you stager the joints between the rows and then insert a rebar every other bay then fill the bays with a high slump concrete of 7 to 9 so it flows through all the layers and wala a very firm wall. on my showcase if you scroll way down you'll see my build with cinderblock and rebar.
My Showcase can be seen here ---> https://www.gardenpondforum.com/showcase/gbbudds-koi-pond-layout-and-full-build.141/
in case you don't know after the concrete is poured blown and shaped you then have a skim coat of plaster to go
Some very impressive pond builds
I have seen concrete recreations as i have built a couple my self on some crazy projects to hide speakers etc a long time ago. The big thing in that process is to dye the concrete as you mix it the color will never go away but when you add it up to make a larger boulder with wire mesh and...
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Oops. Realize I said high slump when I meant low slump. Dry mix.
Only advice I can give is to figure out what you know you can deliver with confidence on a timeline you know you can stick to and don't let a client push you around for a faster completion or an inferior product because when it doesn't work out, they'll badmouth you to their friends (like they're probably doing to whoever came before you) and you'll wish you hadn't agreed to what you did. Word of mouth is everything in the trades. Especially in smaller/rural areas. I'm sure you already know that. Been there. Not worth it.
As for working for another builder and then striking out on your own... that's how basically every trade business in history has started. As a business owner, it's their job to recognize and retain talent that comes their way. So if you go work for them and they do their job right, you won't want to leave. If you leave anyway and start your own thing, tough noogies. That's business. Now your town has 3 pond builders. Better for the town. Who cares what the other two guys think? Just make sure neither of them are related to the sheriff.
Only advice I can give is to figure out what you know you can deliver with confidence on a timeline you know you can stick to and don't let a client push you around for a faster completion or an inferior product because when it doesn't work out, they'll badmouth you to their friends (like they're probably doing to whoever came before you) and you'll wish you hadn't agreed to what you did. Word of mouth is everything in the trades. Especially in smaller/rural areas. I'm sure you already know that. Been there. Not worth it.
As for working for another builder and then striking out on your own... that's how basically every trade business in history has started. As a business owner, it's their job to recognize and retain talent that comes their way. So if you go work for them and they do their job right, you won't want to leave. If you leave anyway and start your own thing, tough noogies. That's business. Now your town has 3 pond builders. Better for the town. Who cares what the other two guys think? Just make sure neither of them are related to the sheriff.
WHAT DO YOU HAVE A CRYSTAL BALL AND LOOKED BACK ON MY LIFE?
i had one client one minute crying on my shoulder when her husbands brother died, then a few weeks latter i hear he tell a friend on the phone they were dumping 150 k in remodeling costs when the job was only 80 k . to the end of the job and the home owner out with a scale and looking for credits on a pound of left over screws.
WORKING FOR YOUR SELF IS NOT ALL ROSES but it can be very rewarding but it will put a strain on you and your family. AND WHEN YOU HAVE EMPLOYEES WORKING FOR YOU AND NOW YOU HAVE THEIR families counting on you. when times are good they are great when things slow down and you have to cover payroll to keep the help . it can get rough
i had one client one minute crying on my shoulder when her husbands brother died, then a few weeks latter i hear he tell a friend on the phone they were dumping 150 k in remodeling costs when the job was only 80 k . to the end of the job and the home owner out with a scale and looking for credits on a pound of left over screws.
WORKING FOR YOUR SELF IS NOT ALL ROSES but it can be very rewarding but it will put a strain on you and your family. AND WHEN YOU HAVE EMPLOYEES WORKING FOR YOU AND NOW YOU HAVE THEIR families counting on you. when times are good they are great when things slow down and you have to cover payroll to keep the help . it can get rough
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If you really want to do it right, this might help. Probably more expensive than your client would want to do though.
Indianapolis, IN Pond Build with a Blue Eco RDF
I leave Thursday 7/7/16 for Indianapolis to start a new pond build. This pond is going to be a monolithic concrete pour as well but it will be formed a little bit differently. The pond dimensions are roughly 14' x 28' but, on the middle of the front long edge of the pond, there is going to be a...
www.koiphen.com
Agree, with everything @GBBUDD and @combatwombat said…..take the time to learn, even if it means subbing jobs where you can watch and learn. Also, take the time to understand the underlying mechanisms of pond filtration and the various styles that are best for the aesthetics the customer wants, yet cover the filtration needs for the life of the pond. Also, understand the regulations and codes for your area on water features, ignorance isn’t an excuse for liability. If you do high end work and understand the what and why of what you are doing in very short order you will make yourself the go to guy for top end ponds/water gardens in your area.
Been in the marine industry my entire life(as an employee then business owner), which is a very specialized industry. (little less than @GBBUDD has been in the trades). In our area we are considered one of the top companies to do shoreline/waterfront work, why because we take the time to produce high quality work (that is allowed and will pass an inspection process) yet still meet or exceed what the customer wants. I can explain the mechanisms and ideas behind why or why not various ideas the customer has will or will not work, be it just function or not permissible by law, whether it be for a pier, bulkhead, stone revetment, marsh creation/ living shoreline.
Been in the marine industry my entire life(as an employee then business owner), which is a very specialized industry. (little less than @GBBUDD has been in the trades). In our area we are considered one of the top companies to do shoreline/waterfront work, why because we take the time to produce high quality work (that is allowed and will pass an inspection process) yet still meet or exceed what the customer wants. I can explain the mechanisms and ideas behind why or why not various ideas the customer has will or will not work, be it just function or not permissible by law, whether it be for a pier, bulkhead, stone revetment, marsh creation/ living shoreline.
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Seems like an EPDM or HDRPE liner would be less work and a more secure way of holding water.
There's been an awful lot of threads on this site where people are looking for a way to seal a concrete pond due to cracks.
But it does make you wonder how they make all those concrete swimming pools.
I've been on industrial job sites that have giant concrete pits that have been holding water for decades. How do they do that? Special concrete?
I don't think I'd have a concrete pond built unless the contractor was an expert in that field. All you need is one crack and you've got a big problem.
I know there are concrete pond sealers you can buy, but they are quite expensive.
There's been an awful lot of threads on this site where people are looking for a way to seal a concrete pond due to cracks.
But it does make you wonder how they make all those concrete swimming pools.
I've been on industrial job sites that have giant concrete pits that have been holding water for decades. How do they do that? Special concrete?
I don't think I'd have a concrete pond built unless the contractor was an expert in that field. All you need is one crack and you've got a big problem.
I know there are concrete pond sealers you can buy, but they are quite expensive.
If he’s set to tear it out then why not a liner pond? Easier, cheaper, less to learn and go wrong…
Why skim coat of plaster?
I will pitch in here to say my next door neighbor loves contemporary looking landscaping and had a contractor put in a rectangular concrete pond. It was coated with some sort of waterproof sealer - supposedly made for the application. Within months, the coating over the concrete started bubbling up and doing weird stuff. It has continued to be a headache. I think this spring, they intend to drain it and re-coat it. I keep thinking it would be much easier to pop off the edge shelves and install a liner - then put the edging back over the top.
Concrete does not dry for a period time. The Hover dam for instance is said to have finaly cured only 10 years ago. There are many reasons why it may take longer in particular area over an other. Out door temperatures, Winds, due points, thickness to start.
Very few applications specifically state for the sealer to be installed while the concrete is still Green/ drying. Bubbling to me says the concrete may have been to green to apply a paint or coating.
Very few applications specifically state for the sealer to be installed while the concrete is still Green/ drying. Bubbling to me says the concrete may have been to green to apply a paint or coating.