HAVE A QUESTION REGARDING WHEN I CAN START ADDING FISHIES

Mmathis

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Since I'm building the pond in baby steps, all I have so far is a lined hole-in-the-ground (oh, and one humongous rock to sit on :D ). Right now I'm putting together a PVC pipe support frame that will hold my "false floor" in place. Have 2 baby lilies, awaiting their new home, as well as the turtles who (are they a " who," a "that," or a "which,"....?) are getting very impatient with me.

I hope to have their false floor finished by the weekend (it's been too hot), but before I can let the turtles have access, I have to get new fences up to enclose their areas. Hopefully, only another couple of days for that. I'm not filling it up yet, as I need to be in the pond to build stuff. Oh yeah, still waiting for that GFIC!

So, don't have a pump yet. Don't have the filter built yet.

My questions are, once I get the pump and start things circulating, plus get some plants added, let the turtles have access, can I add a Goldie or 2 even if there's not a filter? And either way, how long do you wait before adding fish? For some reason, 3 weeks stands out. But about 4 weeks from now I'm off to Boy Scout camp for a week. Sorta don't want to add any fish right before I won't be there to monitor things (should have filtration by then, though, just none right now).
 
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No way to tell other than by adding the fish and measuring ammonia level. You could add ammonia to the water a few weeks before adding fish to get the bio filter working. But you still need to measure ammonia to tell for sure.

Most people just add the fish whenever and most fish live.
 

addy1

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Not sure what water you are using tm, if from a well check your ph, my acidic well killed off some test feeders. After I got the ph stabilized (6months later) we added fish
 

Mmathis

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No way to tell other than by adding the fish and measuring ammonia level. You could add ammonia to the water a few weeks before adding fish to get the bio filter working. But you still need to measure ammonia to tell for sure.

Most people just add the fish whenever and most fish live.

Ammonia? Just plain old household, toxic, stinky ammonia? How much to be safe, without overkill (accidental pun)?
 

Mmathis

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Not sure what water you are using tm, if from a well check your ph, my acidic well killed off some test feeders. After I got the ph stabilized (6months later) we added fish

City water, medium hardness, no idea about pH. Do I need to know that before hand? I know I'll be found water checks.
 

fishin4cars

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Good idea to get a test kit and start keeping track of what the tap water (Base line) is and this will also allow you to start a journal to keep up with what's going on. Oh and this will greatly help those of us with experience to help you IF something does start to go wrong. also a great learning curve that you'll need to know at some point, might as well start from the very begining. A good rule of thumb if your just going to start with fish and let the pond take it's natural course. 2-4 days to allow the temp. to stabalize, and allow the chlorine and such to evaporate (For the lack of a better term).
You can do the ammonia start up and you'll have to keep a really close eye and test regularly to do that. It does build a better initial bacteria bed IMO but there are so many beneficial bacteria products on the market these days that you can use one of them to help seed the pond and the filter that it's really not woth all the extra headache to do the ammonia start up much anymore. I would recommend NOT starting with koi at all during this start-up. Common goldfish/Comets, No fancy goldfish like orandas, and telescopes to start with. A lot of people start with feeder fish, again, not something I recommend. i recommend starting out with cheaper goldfish but pick and choose the fish you like. These will probably all make it or at least most will, Might as well have nice fish in the pond as they will probably be there for many years to come. another reason not to use feeder fish is they are a lot more prone to parasite and fungal problems, these fish are culls from someones farm, they stock them in small vats that are very crowded for quick sale. Buying a $1-$2 fish versus a .25 cent fish just might mean a whole lot of unwanted problems to save a few dollars. I almost always start new clients ponds with a combination of 6-12 goldfish depending on the size pond. Shubunkin's, Sarrasa's' and one or two common orange goldfish really look good and give a good contrast of color with each other. I think I remember you saying it was not going to be for Koi anyway. you can add one later if you would like but for the first few months Koi don't do as well as goldfish. With the selection above I very rarely have to remove any fish, The clients are almost always happy to keep them and get quite attached to them. on the rare occassion I do need to remove it's usually because they wanted Koi and no goldfish in the same pond.
I will stress though, It's pretty important to get the filter and pump running and a basic install done before adding any fish. It's a royal pain in the ---- to have to remove the fish and house them seperately if you have to drain the pond to make a major adjustment.
 
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Ammonia? Just plain old household, toxic, stinky ammonia? How much to be safe, without overkill (accidental pun)?
Yes, unscented plain ammonia. Ammonia is ammonia. There are a bunch of articles you can find via Google. If you have trouble I'll look.

You can't actually add too much since there's no fish. Not sure how high an amount plants can take. The amount you add just means more food for the bacteria. When ammonia and nitrites read zero you're ready.

Under the right conditions, using the right products, bacteria in a bottle can speed up the process by a day, maybe two.
 
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Waterbug... without knowing a thing about ponds, I just used the "whenever" method and I guess I got lucky. I added minnows about 3 weeks after filling the pond, and some feeder goldies about a week after that. Except for the ones the raccoons got, all survived and are doing well, even after being out all winter. (my second season for the pond). I followed some "good" advice here and got myself a good test kit. All is well. :)
 
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Cycling a bio filter is not needed in 99.999% of water gardens. Heck, most water gardens don't even need a bio filter.

The ammonia trick is really only for the few pond keepers who want to add a large fish load quickly and for people who like things to be a little more complex than is required or just like messing around. I would be in the latter.
 

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Due to a bad back and little spare time, my pond went about six years without a filter. The plants grew, the goldfish multiplied, and the kingfishers helped themselves to anything that reached about five inches in size. The pond held around 1,300 g., and there was never any "stagnant" smell to it. In all fairness, though, the fish were only fed once or twice a week.
John
 

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Thats why my fish don't get fed that much ,maybe once or twice a week if there lucky .I play it safe ,but then again most times I really don't pay much attention to the filters ,I just let them do there job .I have noticed a big change in my pond after starting doing this .Two years ago I used to feed them everyday and always had water problems and was constantly at the pond and now not so much .I guess that comes as laziness or just realizing ,hey there has to be a better way and an easier way .Fish will not starve and feeding is mainly for our pleasure rather than there's .They are pigs and are happy to eat but also happy producing there waste to live in and expecting you to keep it clean .Lay back don't feed as much and less problems and less work .
 

crsublette

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Sounds like 2 goldies will be fine as long as they are feeder goldfish, also called Comets. Koi goldfish produce much ammonia and the spikes in new water may kill them.

From what I understand, as long as you add new fish gradually, then you will be ok. If you add a bunch of fish all of a sudden, then the ammonia spikes will hurt the fish, possibly kill them, since bacteria colonies must first be able to grow to manage the ammonia.

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Yeah, I have read you can jump start your pond by putting in feeder goldfish, also called Comets. Don't put too many either. The idea behind this is that the feeder goldfish's pookie will provide enough Ammonia to jump start your bacteria colonies and yet not be enough to kill your fish from Ammonia spikes due to bacteria colonies not formed well enough. Feeder fish are also more hardy to live in most kinds of water. Also, fish food and plant decay adds ammonia to the water; so, do not feed the fish too much while you are doing this.

Bacteria colonies form anywhere there is surface area for them to attach. Reason why folk use bio-filters is that bio-filters provide a tremendously huge amount of surface area dependent upon the type of bio-filter media. If you want to noticeably overstock your water, then get a bio-filter. Bio-filters are insanely easy to make if ya know how to glue PVC together and know how to operate a power drill. Check out their DIY section here.

From what I am told, ya don't have to have a filter as long as your water is not overstocked with fish. Fish do reproduce so ya will need to do something to control population such as Haro mentioned with the Kingfisher. Also, I am told Comets will eat each others eggs if you do not feed them much and there are other stuff out there that get the eggs as well.

From reading articles, rule of thumb I found was:
1) a ratio of .5 inches of fish per 10 gallons of water is easy to maintain without bio-filtration;
2) a ratio of 2 inches of fish per 10 gallons will require bio-filtration;
3) a ratio of 4 inches of fish per 10 gallons will require a 55 gallon barrel, or multiple barrels or a fancier unit for bio-filtration.

In other words, for 1000 gallons of water, you can probably get away with 50 inches of fish (10 fish that are 5 inches long) without a bio-filter. If you want to put 80 fish that are each 5 inches long, total of 400 inches of fish, in a 1000 gallons then ya better do water changes and have a 55 gallon barrel bio-filter or maybe even two barrels or something fancier.

Your bio-filtration (bacteria colony size) and maintaining KH will determine if your water is overstocked.

If you want to put alot of fish into your brand new or clean pond, then ya need to cycle it with Ammonium Hydroxide to build up your bacteria colonies. OR ... you could use pre-colonized bio-filter media such as asking a buddy to borrow some of their filter media or get some of their media squeegee liquid.

Learn about pond water chemistry, KH relationship to pH in particular, if you really want to overstock your water. Also, hard water (has high KH) will eventually soften (lower KH) according to the amount of waste your bacteria colonies process. If your KH gets too low, then your pH will have a tendency to crash, meaning all living things in water will die. So, heh, learn more about pond water chemistry, all aspects, if you want to overstock your water and maintain healthy fish at the same time.


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Ammonia? Just plain old household, toxic, stinky ammonia? How much to be safe, without overkill (accidental pun)?
You want Ammonium Hydroxide and zero artificial scents to it and no surfactants. If after shaking the bottle hard and there is a foam built up, then this means a surfactant is present. Chelating agents are safe; this just helps to make the ammonia soluble in water.

The brands I use came from "Do It Best" stores. I have used Blue Ribbon and Z-Force extra strength.

I used one of those small 30mL cups and added 180mL of Blue Ribbon ammonia to my 435 gallon water feature. This brought me up to 5ppm of ammonia to 435 gallons of water.

Product's ammonia content and your particular pond water volume will determine how many mL ya will use to obtain 1ppm of ammonia. All products have varying percent of actual pure ammonia. Ugh, last I remember, Blue Ribbon is 3% pure ammonia.

Remember, this stuff is used to disinfect, or kill, bacteria so do not go crazy. Add a bit, wait a few minutes for your pump to turn over your pond's water once, then test for Ammonia, see where it registers.

Easy to see Ammonia to reach zero on test kits. Takes longer for Nitrites to reach zero. Ammonia and Nitrites are toxic to fish are varying scales.

The bacteria that removes Nitrites is slower to form and is dependent upon your pH and water temperature. I have read it takes 70 F degrees water temperature or higher and 7.5~8.5 pH for optimum growth to form the bacteria that removes Nitrites.

Continue your Ammonium Hydroxide doses each day until the Nitrites reach zero. If you stop the ammonia doses and you do not have fish in the water, then the bacteria will eventually hibernate, or even die off, due to the lack of food for it to consume.

What I did was ... After my last ammonia dose in the morning, I waited until the evening, 12 hours later, to add my fish. This way the ammonia will have had a chance to feed the bacteria and there will be extremely small amount of ammonia remaining once fish are introduce.


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I am noticeably overstocking my little 435 gallon water feature so this is why I jump started my water.

I used the Microbe-Lift regiment, which is, a combo of their PL and Nite-Out and spring/summer enzymes.

I dosed my 435gallon water feature to be around 3~5ppm of Ammonia. I maintained a 3~5ppm to be consumed within 24 hours. Took only a week for my bacteria colonies to get big enough to consume the 3~5ppm of Ammonia within 24 hours.

Next was to wait for the Nitrites to zero out. This took longer for me since my water temperature was hovering between 55 F degrees and 65 F degrees and pH of 8.4.

Took me a little over 2 weeks for my Nitrites to zero out.

You are not completely cycled until your Nitrites are zero within 24 hours.


Take notice, Nitrites and Nitrates are two different things. Ammonia is converted to Nitrite that is converted into Nitrate that is converted to Nitrogen and also feeds plants and algae.
 

Mmathis

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Wanted to jump-start some biomedia. I got my 100 gal. Rubbermaid tank the other day. Filled it about 6" from the top, added de-chlor, then set up a small (350 gph) pump I had (it's in a filter box). Added my plants, then got 4 little goldfish. So far, the plants are doing fine, as are the goldfish. Hoping to be able to move everything to my pond by the weekend. Still working on the "false floor" and enclosure fence for the turtles, but close to finished.
 

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