Hello to All and HELP!

[bethbealmccue]

ur lucky...i need palnts and ave too many fish,,, i put an add last year in a free paper for free fish and had people come and get them,,,

i need plants not paints wheres the cheapest place to get them

 

[bethbealmccue]

We purchased a house 2 years ago that included a 3500-4000 gallon goldfish pond in the front yard. The pond was unattended for over a year in Central Virginia. It wasn't gross or grown up, just not clear water. I have never owned a pond before and had NO idea where to start. Last spring I had it drained & cleaned, at which time I learned that there were around 2 dozen Comet?Fish plus some guppies and a LOT of frogs. By summer it will be 3/4 covered with plants; 2 water lilies a large corkscrew rush, an invasive mint plant, a small arrow Arum, a bog iris & 3 Hibiscus Coccinineus. The pond guy told me that it would never be clear because it got too much full sun in the hottest part of summer?

ANYWAY, my pond is not clear and I want it to be. After two years of research online (no sun/too much sun, UV Bio filter pump/trickle tower, Barley pellets/Barley Ball that the neighborhood dog thought was his toy, DefensePac, etc...), I think my HEAD WILL EXPLODE! I don't believe that brain matter is conducive to clear pond water. Although the fish might like it.
Currently there is a 3 inch wide black film surrounding the pond edge......oh wait, it's moving.......zillions of tadpoles!

Can anyone on this site help me clear up this matter (pun intended

)

Thanks!

oh we use pond salt too and flush pond let it overfill and add new water, we do this at least twice a month

 

[bethbealmccue]

Step 1. Find a new pond guy. He's read some myths on the web and believed them. That's fine for owners, but when you're charging money I think you should actually know something.

Back when I cleaned ponds I guaranteed clear (and we'd agree on a test for "clear") in 7 days and wasn't paid unless the definition of "clear" was met. Once cleared we could talk about more long term clear. To me the pond business means clear, people who pay always want clear. If you can't clear a pond in 7 days you shouldn't be in the business.

The sun light myth is only related to green ponds (only one thing that effects clarity) and is based on the fact that sun light is one thing a plant needs to grow and reproduce. This leads to the myth that by reducing sun light all the algae in the pond will die. Sounds logical enough as long as you don't have much experience with ponds. Algae needs very little sun light. Algae will grow very well in a fish tank inside a house while getting virtually no sun light (house lights are a different kind of light). Even in complete darkness algae to remain alive for a very long time.

Reducing sun light can reduce algae growth, so your pond would be less green, but it would still be green. Clear ponds on the other hand normally have water that is toxic to green water algae. Norm Meck's experiments poured water from a clear pond into water from a green pond and the algae was killed on contact. So clear ponds have nothing to do with sun light or nutrients.

UV filters are 100% effective in clearing a green pond when installed and sized correctly. Other than copper based chemicals and oxidizers it is the only 100% effective, every single, can't miss, time.

However, given the age of your pond, the amount of life, I'm guessing your "clear" problem isn't green water algae. I'm guessing a combination of things mainly related to decomposing organics, possibly some tannins and maybe a little bit of suspended algae. If you look really close can you see lots of ground pepper size bits of suspended stuff? Can you see the bottom? How deep? Submerge something white. How deep before you can't see it? Before it disappears what color does it become. Pretty much impossible to diagnose over the net.

yep it sounds llike the old pond i had that we had to drain and get rid of liner and rebuild,,,,,oh my

 

[callingcolleen1]

Hello! AlaPAMa, and good pond filter can do wonders. There are many to choose from. I choose to use a filter that goes before the pump, but many use a filter that attaches AFTER the pump. Either way a good filter is very nessary. I also feel the 750 GPH pump may not be large enough for 3500 gallon pond in full sun. You can also just attach a hose to the pump and run to other end of pond, to create a "flow". You can never go wrong adding more filteration when pond is in full sun.

I would also take a close look at the edge of the pond, as I feel the outside sand and dirt may be seeping in as the plant beds look higher than the pond. This is a common mistake and I have seen lots of ponds where the outside nutrients were washing into the pond water during a heavy rain or just watering the plant beds would cause the dirt to seep into pond.
Overflowing the pond may not work for you as your pond appears to be much lower than the surounding ground and plant beds, and you would risk having more dirt and extra nutrients wash into the pond from the ground.

Your fish look big from what I can see, and murky water could just be coming in from outside. If you could take a closer look at your liner and see if you could lift the liner where needed and adjust the edges. You may have to get "creative" PS ... BIG WeLcOmE!

 

[AlaPAMa]

I think you need a real filter with some mechanical a bio media.. The one shown is not near enough. That is unless you are not shown us the filter.

As I mentioned, I know nothing about any of this. The above attached photo is of the device that I clean monthly and makes the pretty little plume of water. I call it a filter.....is it not? It has an UV light in the encasement. Dare I repeat..... I know nothing of this.....which is why I joined this forum, to learn. I do want to learn. It appears that I have done nothing bad.... yet..... because I have too many fish and lots of healthy plants..... the water is just murky (suspended particles, see I do learn :smile: ). The house (and pond) was a foreclosure, the previous owner's evicted 3 years ago. The pond left to it's own devices for a year. Apparently they built the pond themselves. Unfortunately, as they were evicted, I have NO documentation, information on any of it. I didn't even know that the pump existed for several months. I saw a black cable, originally thought it was a snake, only to discovered a big, black, gooey thing attached to the other end, submerged in my pond. After I cleaned it, ran power to it, and resubmerged it, I learned that it was a fountain.

 

[AlaPAMa]

oh we use pond salt too and flush pond let it overfill and add new water, we do this at least twice a month

What! Twice a Month!?!?!?!

 

[AlaPAMa]

Hello! AlaPAMa, and good pond filter can do wonders. There are many to choose from. I choose to use a filter that goes before the pump, but many use a filter that attaches AFTER the pump. Either way a good filter is very nessary. I also feel the 750 GPH pump may not be large enough for 3500 gallon pond in full sun. You can also just attach a hose to the pump and run to other end of pond, to create a "flow". You can never go wrong adding more filteration when pond is in full sun.

I would also take a close look at the edge of the pond, as I feel the outside sand and dirt may be seeping in as the plant beds look higher than the pond. This is a common mistake and I have seen lots of ponds where the outside nutrients were washing into the pond water during a heavy rain or just watering the plant beds would cause the dirt to seep into pond.
Overflowing the pond may not work for you as your pond appears to be much lower than the surounding ground and plant beds, and you would risk having more dirt and extra nutrients wash into the pond from the ground.

Your fish look big from what I can see, and murky water could just be coming in from outside. If you could take a closer look at your liner and see if you could lift the liner where needed and adjust the edges. You may have to get "creative" PS ... BIG WeLcOmE!

ok, great! but what is "a good pond filter"? I don't mean to be obtuse, but there are THOUSANDS of them on the market....how do I know what to choose? If the 700gph is not enough, how much do I need?
I have lifted and backfilled a couple of places that were so low that it caused overflow. Am unsure about inflow.... there is a little ditch rimming the outside of pond before beds buildup.
and thanks for the BIG WeLcOmE! :cheerful:

 

[HTH]

In theory mechanical filters catch the particles/sludge.
In theory biological filters hosts the bacteria, that is why is is called a bio filter.

Problem is that nobody told the sludge or the bacteria which is which.

 

[Waterbug]

Waterbug, I live in a very rural area and the pond guy who came out was the only guy I could find and he traveled 40 miles. I don't really want to have to hire someone but the web just has far TOO MUCH information from which a lay person to glean truth. Yes, I can see the particles floating. At the risk of quoting the pond guy again, he told me that the algae was very low.

Sorry. I just don't like myths. I think myths ruin the hobby for a lot of people.

At the risk of being crucified by this and all pond forum, I don't feed the fish.

Nothing wrong with that imo.

 

[Waterbug]

"Other than copper based chemicals and oxidizers it is the only 100% effective, every single, can't miss, time." Waterbug, I don't know what that means either ^_^

There are only a few methods that are effective 100% of the time against green water algae that I know of that can be used with fish.

1. UV filter. Very fish safe.

2. Chemicals that contain copper. Relatively fish safe but very difficult to do right. Too much and fish die.

3. Oxidizers basically "burn" up organic matter. Chlorine is an oxidizer. So is hydrogen peroxide which can be used with fish. I'm talking about very strong HP, not the stuff in the drug store. Relatively fish safe, but can harm fish and plants if too much is used. Biggest downside is it has to be repeated as the algae comes right back.

All other other methods don't always work. A few methods like adding a stream, or a bog, or string algae, or a Trickle Tower (pile of rocks with water flowing over it) seem to work in some cases.

Then there are an endless number of completely worthless ways touted all over the web.

Getting clean water is pretty easy imo, Getting thru the tons of really bad info available on the web is the hardest part. Personally I think it is almost impossible. Certainly took me a long time. I've been on different pond forums for more than 15 years I think, maybe 20. Read certainly more than a thousand posts from people who wrote pretty much exactly what you posted. In almost very case they pick the most complex, expensive, difficult and worthless solutions. I'm not sure why, and it does interest me. Perhaps the myths just sound so darn good, and you get lots and lots of people saying they work. Hard to pass up. Plus the things that do work are really very boring and take a fair amount of effort compared to buying a some barley straw, tossing it into a pond and waiting 6-8 weeks.

 

[capewind]

I'm assuming you need a picture of the pump/filter..... here goes..... this filter sits inside a mesh drawstring bag. I have it sitting atop a cinderblock as the water is too deep for the lift.

pond pump.jpg

First of all, welcome to the group

This is a pump, what are you using for a FILTER? All a pump is doing for you is moving the water. I tried to look it up, and found no info on what size UV it is running ... bulbs need replacing each year (when built in, you dont have the option of turning it on/off in most cases) ...

Also, if the pond is 15x8, and 2' deep throughout, the pond size is at best, 1800 gallons. Knowing the size of your pond is important if you ever need to treat with chemicals for any reason...

Full sun is not a major issue, that is incorrect. First thing I want to advise is to forget everything the "pond guy" told you, as he clearly isnt a qualified pond person. The group members here will get you on the right track, and help you to get your pond CLEAR.

From what I gather so far, you have a few things to address. Top of the list is mucking out any debris in the pond, and getting a real filter ... for filter advise, we need to know more about the population count, as well as your goals ... Do you have a test kit for testing the water?

 

[Mmathis]

Thanks for the warm welcome. You wouldn't believe how stupid one can be made to feel on some of these forums.
.
At the risk of being crucified by this and all pond forum,

One of the best things about the GPF is that [as a general rule], we don't crucify. There are many ways to do things and most are just "different," not wrong. Some do work better than others, and what works for one person may not work for another, etc, etc, etc. Folks on the GPF have the reputation of being helpful and [fairly] open-minded, and really like to share ideas. As to being a good place to come for info, there are lots of knowledgable members here, and if they don't know the answer, they'll try their darnedest to find it for you.

 

[AlaPAMa]

First of all, welcome to the group

This is a pump, what are you using for a FILTER? All a pump is doing for you is moving the water. I tried to look it up, and found no info on what size UV it is running ... bulbs need replacing each year (when built in, you dont have the option of turning it on/off in most cases) ...

Also, if the pond is 15x8, and 2' deep throughout, the pond size is at best, 1800 gallons. Knowing the size of your pond is important if you ever need to treat with chemicals for any reason...

Full sun is not a major issue, that is incorrect. First thing I want to advise is to forget everything the "pond guy" told you, as he clearly isnt a qualified pond person. The group members here will get you on the right track, and help you to get your pond CLEAR.

From what I gather so far, you have a few things to address. Top of the list is mucking out any debris in the pond, and getting a real filter ... for filter advise, we need to know more about the population count, as well as your goals ... Do you have a test kit for testing the water?

No test kit. Where would I find one?
Population count is difficult at this stage as the weather is still cool and they aren't coming up often. If I had almost 24 Goldfish/Comets last spring and we only saw one dead fish all year, could I infer from that, that we have at least 22? We are now seeing something that looks like aquarium guppies also.
Goals are to have clear water and a relatively care free pond. Maybe next year, getting the stone edging of the pond replaced. I would like a waterfall, but we LOVE the volume of the spout. Wouldn't a water fall be more quiet?
The pond is not 2' throughout, only at it's deepest which is a 1' wide x 5' long strip in a 2' "T".
Apparently the only filtering I have is water moving through the plants. Any assistance in choosing a filter is greatly appreciated.
Thanks for the welcome

 

[Becky]

Welcome aboard! Your pond look like it has a lot of potential, so I hope you manage to sort out the issues

 

[AlaPAMa]

Getting thru the tons of really bad info available on the web is the hardest part. Personally I think it is almost impossible.

AMEN!!

In almost very case they pick the most complex, expensive, difficult and worthless solutions. I'm not sure why, and it does interest me.

We who lack knowledge on these things, assume that "more is better" or "you get what you pay for". I have been guilty of going that route myself in the past. I am now in a position of time availability and would like to learn the best way to proceed with my pond.