Hello to All and HELP!


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callingcolleen1 said:
Hello! :) AlaPAMa, and good pond filter can do wonders. There are many to choose from. I choose to use a filter that goes before the pump, but many use a filter that attaches AFTER the pump. Either way a good filter is very nessary. I also feel the 750 GPH pump may not be large enough for 3500 gallon pond in full sun. You can also just attach a hose to the pump and run to other end of pond, to create a "flow". You can never go wrong adding more filteration when pond is in full sun.

I would also take a close look at the edge of the pond, as I feel the outside sand and dirt may be seeping in as the plant beds look higher than the pond. This is a common mistake and I have seen lots of ponds where the outside nutrients were washing into the pond water during a heavy rain or just watering the plant beds would cause the dirt to seep into pond.
Overflowing the pond may not work for you as your pond appears to be much lower than the surounding ground and plant beds, and you would risk having more dirt and extra nutrients wash into the pond from the ground.

Your fish look big from what I can see, and murky water could just be coming in from outside. If you could take a closer look at your liner and see if you could lift the liner where needed and adjust the edges. You may have to get "creative" :) PS ... BIG WeLcOmE!
ok, great! but what is "a good pond filter"? I don't mean to be obtuse, but there are THOUSANDS of them on the market....how do I know what to choose? If the 700gph is not enough, how much do I need?
I have lifted and backfilled a couple of places that were so low that it caused overflow. Am unsure about inflow.... there is a little ditch rimming the outside of pond before beds buildup.
and thanks for the BIG WeLcOmE! :cheerful:
 

HTH

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In theory mechanical filters catch the particles/sludge.
In theory biological filters hosts the bacteria, that is why is is called a bio filter.

Problem is that nobody told the sludge or the bacteria which is which.
 
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AlaPAMa said:
Waterbug, I live in a very rural area and the pond guy who came out was the only guy I could find and he traveled 40 miles. I don't really want to have to hire someone but the web just has far TOO MUCH information from which a lay person to glean truth. Yes, I can see the particles floating. At the risk of quoting the pond guy again, he told me that the algae was very low.
Sorry. I just don't like myths. I think myths ruin the hobby for a lot of people.
AlaPAMa said:
At the risk of being crucified by this and all pond forum, I don't feed the fish.
Nothing wrong with that imo.
 
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AlaPAMa said:
"Other than copper based chemicals and oxidizers it is the only 100% effective, every single, can't miss, time." Waterbug, I don't know what that means either ^_^
There are only a few methods that are effective 100% of the time against green water algae that I know of that can be used with fish.

1. UV filter. Very fish safe.

2. Chemicals that contain copper. Relatively fish safe but very difficult to do right. Too much and fish die.

3. Oxidizers basically "burn" up organic matter. Chlorine is an oxidizer. So is hydrogen peroxide which can be used with fish. I'm talking about very strong HP, not the stuff in the drug store. Relatively fish safe, but can harm fish and plants if too much is used. Biggest downside is it has to be repeated as the algae comes right back.

All other other methods don't always work. A few methods like adding a stream, or a bog, or string algae, or a Trickle Tower (pile of rocks with water flowing over it) seem to work in some cases.

Then there are an endless number of completely worthless ways touted all over the web.

Getting clean water is pretty easy imo, Getting thru the tons of really bad info available on the web is the hardest part. Personally I think it is almost impossible. Certainly took me a long time. I've been on different pond forums for more than 15 years I think, maybe 20. Read certainly more than a thousand posts from people who wrote pretty much exactly what you posted. In almost very case they pick the most complex, expensive, difficult and worthless solutions. I'm not sure why, and it does interest me. Perhaps the myths just sound so darn good, and you get lots and lots of people saying they work. Hard to pass up. Plus the things that do work are really very boring and take a fair amount of effort compared to buying a some barley straw, tossing it into a pond and waiting 6-8 weeks.
 
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AlaPAMa said:
I'm assuming you need a picture of the pump/filter..... here goes..... this filter sits inside a mesh drawstring bag. I have it sitting atop a cinderblock as the water is too deep for the lift.

pond pump.jpg
First of all, welcome to the group:)

This is a pump, what are you using for a FILTER? All a pump is doing for you is moving the water. I tried to look it up, and found no info on what size UV it is running ... bulbs need replacing each year (when built in, you dont have the option of turning it on/off in most cases) ...

Also, if the pond is 15x8, and 2' deep throughout, the pond size is at best, 1800 gallons. Knowing the size of your pond is important if you ever need to treat with chemicals for any reason...

Full sun is not a major issue, that is incorrect. First thing I want to advise is to forget everything the "pond guy" told you, as he clearly isnt a qualified pond person. The group members here will get you on the right track, and help you to get your pond CLEAR.

From what I gather so far, you have a few things to address. Top of the list is mucking out any debris in the pond, and getting a real filter ... for filter advise, we need to know more about the population count, as well as your goals ... Do you have a test kit for testing the water?
 

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AlaPAMa said:
Thanks for the warm welcome. You wouldn't believe how stupid one can be made to feel on some of these forums.
.
At the risk of being crucified by this and all pond forum,
:) One of the best things about the GPF is that [as a general rule], we don't crucify. There are many ways to do things and most are just "different," not wrong. Some do work better than others, and what works for one person may not work for another, etc, etc, etc. Folks on the GPF have the reputation of being helpful and [fairly] open-minded, and really like to share ideas. As to being a good place to come for info, there are lots of knowledgable members here, and if they don't know the answer, they'll try their darnedest to find it for you.
 
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capewind said:
First of all, welcome to the group:)

This is a pump, what are you using for a FILTER? All a pump is doing for you is moving the water. I tried to look it up, and found no info on what size UV it is running ... bulbs need replacing each year (when built in, you dont have the option of turning it on/off in most cases) ...

Also, if the pond is 15x8, and 2' deep throughout, the pond size is at best, 1800 gallons. Knowing the size of your pond is important if you ever need to treat with chemicals for any reason...

Full sun is not a major issue, that is incorrect. First thing I want to advise is to forget everything the "pond guy" told you, as he clearly isnt a qualified pond person. The group members here will get you on the right track, and help you to get your pond CLEAR.

From what I gather so far, you have a few things to address. Top of the list is mucking out any debris in the pond, and getting a real filter ... for filter advise, we need to know more about the population count, as well as your goals ... Do you have a test kit for testing the water?
No test kit. Where would I find one?
Population count is difficult at this stage as the weather is still cool and they aren't coming up often. If I had almost 24 Goldfish/Comets last spring and we only saw one dead fish all year, could I infer from that, that we have at least 22? We are now seeing something that looks like aquarium guppies also.
Goals are to have clear water and a relatively care free pond. Maybe next year, getting the stone edging of the pond replaced. I would like a waterfall, but we LOVE the volume of the spout. Wouldn't a water fall be more quiet?
The pond is not 2' throughout, only at it's deepest which is a 1' wide x 5' long strip in a 2' "T".
Apparently the only filtering I have is water moving through the plants. Any assistance in choosing a filter is greatly appreciated.
Thanks for the welcome :)
 

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Welcome aboard! Your pond look like it has a lot of potential, so I hope you manage to sort out the issues :)
 
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Waterbug said:
Getting thru the tons of really bad info available on the web is the hardest part. Personally I think it is almost impossible.
AMEN!!

Waterbug said:
In almost very case they pick the most complex, expensive, difficult and worthless solutions. I'm not sure why, and it does interest me.
We who lack knowledge on these things, assume that "more is better" or "you get what you pay for". I have been guilty of going that route myself in the past. I am now in a position of time availability and would like to learn the best way to proceed with my pond.
 
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Waterbug said:
Plus the things that do work are really very boring and take a fair amount of effort compared to buying a some barley straw, tossing it into a pond and waiting 6-8 weeks.
I like boring..... two springs ago (my first with this pond), I used barley straw in a floating ball then the neighbor's dog thought it was a toy and broke it open. I just left the barley floating, I didn't see any noticeable clarity. I have also used barley pellets to no success.
 
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AlaPAMa said:
No test kit. Where would I find one?
I didnt look for the cheapest priced one, just went to ebay to give you a visual ...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/API-Freshwater-Master-Aquarium-Test-Kit-/121071703838?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c306f971e

To start with, you need to test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and PH ... once you are more comfortable, KH and GH need to be addressed as well, but dont want to overwhelm you. The KH and GH are important too, but sooo many dont test these at all, no harm to delay just a bit and give you some time to absorb the other info first.

AlaPAMa said:
Population count is difficult at this stage as the weather is still cool and they aren't coming up often.
Every item in your pond adds to your own little ecosystem. Like in nature, if there is too much, or too little of something, it will go out of balance, and something wont thrive because of it. We dont need an exact fish count, but the quanity of fish you keep, as well as all those tadpoles, add to the load on the environment. Your filter (and as you already know, there are many types) will help you keep the balance with higher populations. So if you tell us you intend to keep all existing creatures (which is fine), or say you want even more, then we know which way to advise may work the best for your situation.

AlaPAMa said:
We are now seeing something that looks like aquarium guppies also.
Could be, or could be BABY fish ... which those tadpoles/frogs will help reduce the numbers ...

AlaPAMa said:
Goals are to have clear water and a relatively care free pond.
Both can be done. Relatively care free is however a subjective term. It IS possible to have a pond that needs almost no work, I am doubting you are going to totally get out of doing anything at all between pond size and population. Little work to me rules out a bog filter. They are a fair amount of work to set up, and plant, and later, plants need pruning, etc ... So think you will be looking at a combo mechanical/biological filter ... which brings me to the next question ... are you handy? With help, do you feel up to building a filter yourself, or would you prefer to go to a store and buy one?

Again, I took your pond size, and calculated with all of it being two feel deep, even though you had said it was two feet at the deepest area ... that got you to 1800 gallons ... if most of it is more shallow, you are likely closer to or under 1500 gallons ... a 700 gph pump isnt going to cut it ... or at least not in my opinion. General rule of thumb is you want to cycle your pond volume at least once hourly ... so if we said your pond was 1500 gallons, you would want a pump pushing around 1500 gph ... other views are different .. some say to cycle the water volume 1.5x per hour, and my husband would say at least twice per hour, especially if you have fish .... It's taking your current pump about two hours to cycle the pond, and there is no filter as of yet ... Your plants are going to help, but you still need something that can pick up smaller debris, and give good bacterias a home (can address the good bacterias later, but in short simple terms, they too eat a lot of your fish wastes and other nasties in the water).

A nice little pump that another group member turned me onto is this one ... good volume, and short money .. just bought a second one a couple days ago ... I did buy the 2 yr warranty on the second pump. It was $20 more.

http://www.harborfreight.com/submersible-waterfall-pump-68418.html
 
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A nice little pump that another group member turned me onto is this one ... good volume, and short money .. just bought a second one a couple days ago ... I did buy the 2 yr warranty on the second pump. It was $20 more.

http://www.harborfreight.com/submersible-waterfall-pump-68418.html


That's great. Thanks!

capewind said:
So think you will be looking at a combo mechanical/biological filter ... which brings me to the next question ... are you handy? With help, do you feel up to building a filter yourself, or would you prefer to go to a store and buy one?
My husband nor I are very handy, however we do have access to a couple of handy neighbors; one is a carpenter, the other a welder. Depending on the complexity, we may be able to make our own. But most likely will have to buy one. :dunno:
 
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However, given the age of your pond, the amount of life, I'm guessing your "clear" problem isn't green water algae. I'm guessing a combination of things mainly related to decomposing organics, possibly some tannins and maybe a little bit of suspended algae. If you look really close can you see lots of ground pepper size bits of suspended stuff? Can you see the bottom? How deep? Submerge something white. How deep before you can't see it? Before it disappears what color does it become. Pretty much impossible to diagnose over the net.

I did the white stick test. The stick is only visible 4 inches down. Here are a couple more photos of my "color".

IMG_2492.jpgIMG_2493.JPGIMG_2494.JPGIMG_2495.jpgIMG_2496.jpgIMG_2497.jpgIMG_2498.jpgIMG_2499.JPG


All the black squiggly, viney looking stuff is tadpoles, aka: fishfood :goldfish:
 
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Waterbug said:
However, given the age of your pond, the amount of life, I'm guessing your "clear" problem isn't green water algae. I'm guessing a combination of things mainly related to decomposing organics, possibly some tannins and maybe a little bit of suspended algae. If you look really close can you see lots of ground pepper size bits of suspended stuff? Can you see the bottom? How deep? Submerge something white. How deep before you can't see it? Before it disappears what color does it become. Pretty much impossible to diagnose over the net.
I did the white stick test. The stick is only visible 4 inches down. Here are a couple more photos of my "color".




All the black squiggly, viney looking stuff is tadpoles, aka: fishfood :goldfish:
 
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I havent read ALL of the other posts word for word, so dont know if this has been asked yet ... looking at the color of your water, are you getting any run off from the yard??? It looks like your liner may be laying flush with grade to allow run off in ... You want your liner to be at least a little above grade, whether you cheat it with dirt or rocks, doesnt matter, but that could be part of your problem too ... also, you could have a fair amount of sludge between the rocks that are in the pond itself ... a good filter is going to get a lot of what is IN the pond, but if there is runoff too, that will make the process ongoing... the color of the water could be decomposing plant matter and muck too from simply not having a filter ... in any regard, you do need some form of a filter, but just caught how the edges of the pond liner meet grade ...

Go to the DIY construction section to see if you, or the friends, could build something for you ... or if you'll definately need to purchase, and if a purchase, everyone can tell you what is working for them ...
 
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AlaPAMa said:
We purchased a house 2 years ago that included a 1500-2000 gallon goldfish pond in the front yard. The pond was unattended for over a year in Central Virginia. It wasn't gross or grown up, just not clear water. I have never owned a pond before and had NO idea where to start. Last spring I had it drained & cleaned, at which time I learned that there were around 2 dozen Comet?Fish plus some guppies and a LOT of frogs. By summer it will be 3/4 covered with plants; 2 water lilies a large corkscrew rush, an invasive mint plant, a small arrow Arum, a bog iris & 3 Hibiscus Coccinineus. The pond guy told me that it would never be clear because it got too much full sun in the hottest part of summer?

ANYWAY, my pond is not clear and I want it to be. After two years of research online (no sun/too much sun, UV Bio filter pump/trickle tower, Barley pellets/Barley Ball that the neighborhood dog thought was his toy, DefensePac, etc...), I think my HEAD WILL EXPLODE! I don't believe that brain matter is conducive to clear pond water. Although the fish might like it.[/size]
Currently there is a 3 inch wide black film surrounding the pond edge......oh wait, it's moving.......zillions of tadpoles![/size]

Can anyone on this site help me clear up this matter (pun intended [/size]
)[/size]

Thanks![/size]
 
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AlaPAMa said:
We purchased a house 2 years ago that included a 1500-2000 gallon goldfish pond in the front yard. The pond was unattended for over a year in Central Virginia. It wasn't gross or grown up, just not clear water. I have never owned a pond before and had NO idea where to start. Last spring I had it drained & cleaned, at which time I learned that there were around 2 dozen Comet?Fish plus some guppies and a LOT of frogs. By summer it will be 3/4 covered with plants; 2 water lilies a large corkscrew rush, an invasive mint plant, a small arrow Arum, a bog iris & 3 Hibiscus Coccinineus. The pond guy told me that it would never be clear because it got too much full sun in the hottest part of summer?

ANYWAY, my pond is not clear and I want it to be. After two years of research online (no sun/too much sun, UV Bio filter pump/trickle tower, Barley pellets/Barley Ball that the neighborhood dog thought was his toy, DefensePac, etc...), I think my HEAD WILL EXPLODE! I don't believe that brain matter is conducive to clear pond water. Although the fish might like it.[/size]
Currently there is a 3 inch wide black film surrounding the pond edge......oh wait, it's moving.......zillions of tadpoles![/size]

Can anyone on this site help me clear up this matter (pun intended [/size]
)[/size]

Thanks![/size]
Sorry about the repeat and repeat, I was just attempting to change the water volume of pond from typo in original post.
Yes, I do believe that the quantity is between 1500 & 2000 Gallons. Not the 3500-4000 originally posted.
 
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It is what it is, but accurate volume makes a difference for treating a pond, or a planning filter system. All I did was run the dimensions you gave through a pond calculator, knowing I used your max depth as THE depth. Even the (garbage) water clear treatments you can buy, if you are way off on your volume, you could accidently kill everything living in the pond. If you want to give accurate measurements, I can run the numbers again to get you closer.
 

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