Help me please...koi are dying

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We’ve had a koi pond that we adopted when we moved here 3 years ago. The koi that were here have thrived and been healthy until this last week one died and now today another. They don’t appear to have rot, but they’ve stopped eating. I checked the PH when the first one died and it’s above 8.4 at the end of the day so I’m working on gradually bringing it back down with vinegar, but there is something else going on. I notice bubbles caught in the algae on the surface. The algae has been hard to manage this year. We now have 8 left, I think, in a 3000gal pond with dual waterfall bio filter system. We are novices at this...they’ve just done so well. Please help us save our koi.
 
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Sorry to hear about your fish.
The experts will chime in I'm sure.
Do you have a test kit to check the water condition? Ammonia, nitrites, phosphates, pH.
 
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Hello @sweetbeats - sorry to hear about your fish. Something is obviously going on.

First thing I will suggest is to stop worrying about your pH - they only time pH really becomes an issue is when it is unstable. Higher or lower than "normal" is nothing to be concerned about, as long as it stays relatively stable.

If you do test for other water parameters, can you post the results. I'm not a water chem expert, but we have others here who can help if they see exactly what those numbers are.

Have you added anything to the pond to try to deal with the algae? Or changed any of your other routines? Are you confident that your 3000 gallon estimate for size is correct? Do you have aeration in the pond? Did you see any signs of distress - fish at the surface, gasping or gulping for air, etc? Have you had any big storms lately? Where are you located? Has the weather been unusually hot?

Any chance something toxic got into the pond - that one is a long shot, but you have to wonder when otherwise healthy fish start to die. Do the others seem OK?

Share some photos of your pond if you can - we can sometimes see something that you might miss.
 
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Hi. I'm so sorry about you losing your Koi. By any chance was it in the morning when you noticed that the two fish had died? If it was then it would indicate depletion of dissolved O2 in your pond because at night they hit the lowest levels.
 

addy1

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How much are you feeding? Like said above post your test results, it will really help us help you.

If you are adding anything to your pond quit.
 

sissy

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koi need lots of aeration like said and need to good to great filtering .I agree get an api test kit and stop feeding and we need more info on the pond and size of the fish .How clean is the bottom of the pond because it could be waste breaking down .Has anything been washed into the pond like fertilizers or weed killers
 

Mmathis

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@sweetbeats How deep is your pond and where do you live — what climate zone? Have you recently added any new fish? Have your fish had babies? Sometimes when koi spawn, the females can become so stressed out that they can die. I wonder if there has just been a spawning...... That could also account for the “bubbles.”

As others have mentioned, tell us all of your water parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, pH, KH...) and tell us the number values, not just “good” or “OK.” And stop adding vinegar or anything else to the pond! The pH doesn’t need to be adjusted to a particular number. I won’t go into an explanation now, but tell us your KH reading and later we can explain what that’s all about.

Algae gets worse when you have too many nutrients in the water (from fish waste, food, decaying plant matter, etc.), so that tells us something. Is your pond in full sunlight? How often do you feed? What size are your remaining 8 koi?

Anyway, back to the basics, as mentioned, please get us water test results, be sure the water is being aerated (you said 2 waterfalls, right?), stop feeding, don’t add anything else to the water for now. We’ll wait to hear back from you! Oh, and I agree that some pictures of your pond would be extremely helpful!
 
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koi need lots of aeration like said and need to good to great filtering .I agree get an api test kit and stop feeding and we need more info on the pond and size of the fish .How clean is the bottom of the pond because it could be waste breaking down .Has anything been washed into the pond like fertilizers or weed killers
So we had very lethargic fish today.. noticed the fountain wasn’t working well
We cleaned it and think we got more aeration..but being rookies we are really not sure
The fish appear to be doing better
 

Mmathis

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So we had very lethargic fish today.. noticed the fountain wasn’t working well
We cleaned it and think we got more aeration..but being rookies we are really not sure
The fish appear to be doing better
Hey there, @Rrooferman! Are you the same person as @sweetbeats? If so, glad to hear that you have seen an improvement! If not, why not pop over to our introductions topic and tell us about yourself and your pond.
 
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So we had very lethargic fish today.. noticed the fountain wasn’t working well
We cleaned it and think we got more aeration..but being rookies we are really not sure
The fish appear to be doing better
My first guess when people have fish die without any previous sign of illness is not enough dissolved oxygen in the water. I would recommend you buy a pond aerator and install it asap. If the water fountain is the only source of aeration and the fish died as a result of it not working well you don't have nearly enough aeration going on and you need a LOT more! Good luck!
 
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Thanks all so much for the replies. So sorry for lobbing our the desperate cry and then being silent...much going on here on top of the problems with the koi pond.


I’ll try to answer all the questions in chronological order of the posts, which will hopefully help clarify our setup and the current situation.


Test kit: I do not have a test kit. I was using pool test strips to measure PH. I was encouraged by a local koi supplier/pond supply store we found a couple towns away to use a liquid test kit. We got one and even after adding a couple gallons of vinegar over several days the PH in the morning is still 9+...it is maxing the scale out which goes to 9. That tells me the PH was and possible still is greater than 9 in the morning, and greater than that in the evening. This helps to explain why we have struggled with the algae so much this year. So though I’m told in this thread not to worry about it, I am going to continue to bring it more into normal range, like something stable between 7 and 8.4 or so between morning and evening.


Algae control: we have added a nominal amount of algae control granules we got from Webb’s Water Garden online several times this season, but not for many weeks.


Pond size: yes I am confident of the 3000gal size. The pond is oval shaped, about 20’ x 15’ and 1.5’ to 2’ deep, and also features two good sized waterfall canals being fed by a Shinmaywa 10,500gph pump. We run the pump 24/7/365. Aeration is not the problem.


Location/recent weather/runoff: we are in Oregon in the Salem area...no storms to speak of (literally only trace precipitation for a couple months now), we do have lawn irrigation that is fed by our well, but the water is potable drinking water quality...tested last year. The pond is periodically topped off with this same water and partial water changes are accomplished by overfilling and allowing water to escape via an overflow drain that exits about 400’ away from the pond. It has been an unusually dry and warm summer for us so far.


Possible toxins introduced? I’m embarrassed to say, but a couple weeks ago we bought a couple small koi from a local chain pet store. One died within 24 hours. I’m feeling terrible at the though this may, along with water quality conditions, be killing our koi. :( I will say there is a natural wetlands/swamp about 500’ away on our property and we occasionally have guest salamanders and frogs at the koi pond. This is not new this year. But I thought I’d mention it. We also used a lot of the little mosquito pucks in the pond this year to try and mitigate all the mosquitos. We have bats that visit the pond nightly to help with insect control. As of today a total of three of the large (I.e. about 16” long) koi have died. I think there is another for which death may be imminent. I’m starting to be able to see the ones that are at greatest risk separate from the others and hang out by the filter basket, and there is one that was doing that yesterday.


Feeding: they continue to not eat. Prior to this the nine koi (seven large and two medium) were eating three 15g feedings a day no problem. I have been removing the uneaten food and yesterday removed the feeder altogether...I plan on hand feeding small amounts daily to see if there is interest.


Timing of deaths: it is not in the morning when I find the dead koi, but rather in the afternoon or evening. Again, with the two large waterfalls and 10,500gph pump I not believe O2 levels are the problem.


Chemical runoff: I don’t believe there is a reasonable way lawn/ag chemicals could be getting into the pond. I apply a fertilizer two to three times a year, but the last application was months ago and if there was a heavy rain it would have to be flash-flood like and even then the runoff would go *behind* the pond liner. I think this is not the cause/concern.


Pond condition: there is algae and some bio waste in the bottom of the pond in areas, but never enough to cover the cobblestone in the pond...I can see rock everywhere.


So I mentioned above the local koi/pond store. Based on symptoms the recommendation was to add salt (we’ve never added salt), 23lbs for the 3,000gal, and add beneficial bacteria. The folks at the store believe the biology of the pond is off, the waste is not being broken down (causing the foaming), and the salt will help the koi fight secondary issues that are happening from either a bacterial or viral infection, likely from the fish we added. Huge and painful lesson learned. We are very sad. They also indicated alkali condition is okay for the koi, though it will promote algae. So they sold me the proper PH test kit and suggested to get the PH in range, but not worry about 8-9 range and to always test in the morning when PH is lowest.


That was 48 hours ago. Conditions don’t seem to be worsening at this point. The foaming is gone, the water is more clear, and I’m just watching the koi closely and will hand feed to see if they are interested. I was instructed how to look for parasites in the gills and on their bodies too and I don’t believe this is an issue.


I have some pictures of the pond from earlier in the year, but I should take some current pictures and post those so stay tuned.
 

sissy

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I cannot see any use for vinegar in a pond ,they are not a salad and besides that vinegar is acidic .Salt is not good either ,why these people keep saying add this and add that don't know what they are talking about .Do not add it as flashing will start and fish will start jumping out of the pond
 

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