Help with new pond?

[Bradchr]

My new Koi pond is 24 ft long and 8 feet across at its widest point. It is 4 1/2 feet deep in the middle. The pond is natural (no liner). It was built two months ago and is spring fed. Roughly 200 gallons of water runs through the spill way each day. The bottom and sides are clay and I put six inches of limestone gravel on the bottom. At this point, I have no filters, pumps, or a water fall. I live in Northern Minnesota and have a decent size budget for this project. I have not decided whether to keep the pond open in the winter. I have several questions since I have no expertise.

The far wall (see picture) is 3 feet above the water level. How wide should the weir be at the top of the waterfall? Should it just plunge straight down? I have tons of natural rocks (see picture); should the face of the falls be natural rocks?

Filter/Skimmers - What should I have? I have read so much but am very confused. Should I buy a waterfall weir with a filter? What type of skimmer? Do I need a pressure filter? What about the bead filters? Should I have a UV filter?

Pump - Can whatever system I design be serviced by one large pump? What pump would you recommend?

System design - I realize I am asking for help designing a system...are there any DYI resources available?

One final question - if I decide not to keep the pond open in the winter (it gets below zero very often here) can it be designed so the take down in the fall wouldn't be much work?
I appreciate any feedback on my question.

 

[koikeepr]

First of all, you are very lukcy indeed to have a natural, springfed pond. You will find many folks here green with envy--myself included.

You can make that waterfall weir as wide as you want it certainly. If you are going to do a preformed waterfall box, you will be limited by it's size, but they come in many dimentions that would suit you: 25", 30" 36" etc.

You could also do a stock tank behind your rocks, and use that as a DIY waterfall filter, with the water spilling from it.

Yes, one large pump can service your system. I have a pond about the size of yours, and I have a William Lim Wave II pump that runs 7200gph. One pump runs my whole system, and I wanted that for ease and simplicity. Of course, there are many benefits to running two pumps on a large pond if one pump goes down. So, you weigh the pluses and minuses.

If in the winter you want to take close the pond--and many of us here do, you don't need to take anything apart. You just drain the water out of your lines, drain your filter, turn off you power, throw a net over the pond to prevent leaves from polluting it, and let the fish go dormant. Since you live in a very cold area, you would ned to consider just keeping a deicer running all winter or an air pump to your pond to maintain a small opening in the ice so there can be gas exchange.

We have lots of DIY ideas in our DIY forum, particularly for filters. I have a 150g stock tank design there that will suit your pond well. You'd just need to put a pipe out of it to feed your waterfall, should you want to go that route. Koiguy, here on this site, also builds/sells weirs, so he can custom make one.

 

[Bradchr]

Thank you....Any particular equipent thoughts? skimmers and or filters?

 

[koikeepr]

I would go with a DIY filter, as I mentioned we have plans on the DIY forum for those. If you are looking for something store bought, please let us know. But with a pond that size you'd be way better off with a DIY system.

I have the Savio large skimmer, and I like it prety well enough. PM DoDad here on this site, as he's a koi pond dealer and he can get much better prices than advertised on the web for skimmers. I got mine from him. Another thing you might want to consider if you're in full sun is a UV--Aqua and Emperor make good ones for ponds.

The biggest issue you're gonna have is where to hide all your stuff. As I said, you can put the stock tank filter behind your waterfall. I'm sure you can hide stuff with shrubs, rock walls, etc.

 

[Otter]

The far wall (see picture) is 3 feet above the water level. How wide should the weir be at the top of the waterfall?

About one inch for every 100-150gph.

Should it just plunge straight down?

That's my personal preference.

I have tons of natural rocks (see picture); should the face of the falls be natural rocks?

If you like.

Filter/Skimmers - What should I have? I have read so much but am very confused.

That's par for the course.

First, you want good mechanical filtration. This might start with the leaf basket in your skimmer or a sieve, but you want something for the finer stuff too. Generally, trying to combine this with the biofilter leads to more maintenance and inferior filtration, but a DIY sand and gravel filter is good for both bio and fines and is easy to clean.
http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68132

Then, you need a biofilter. I suggest you look at the aforementioned SG filter as well as showers and the somewhat new anoxic filter pond.

My post at the end of this thread from last year will get you started on the different types of filters.
https://www.gardenpondforum.com/filter-set-up-t4017.html

I still haven't tried the anoxic filter, and have some doubts about how it works. However, reports from other ponders continue to be good.

Should I buy a waterfall weir with a filter?

Maybe. You'll want more filtration than these usually provide, though.

What type of skimmer?

I have the full size Savio skimmer too, and it's pretty good. OTOH, you could get a pool skimmer for about $30 and plumb it to a DIY leaf basket and prefilter.

Do I need a pressure filter?

Not necessarily.

What about the bead filters?

Other options are usually better.

Should I have a UV filter?

Probably.

Pump - Can whatever system I design be serviced by one large pump?

It depends on what you design.

What pump would you recommend?

Design your system first, then figure out what pump goes with it.

System design - I realize I am asking for help designing a system...are there any DYI resources available?

Tons. Here's a couple to get you started.
http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93019
http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92002

One final question - if I decide not to keep the pond open in the winter (it gets below zero very often here) can it be designed so the take down in the fall wouldn't be much work?
I appreciate any feedback on my question.

Um....How would you take down a clay pond?

The bottom and sides are clay and I put six inches of limestone gravel on the bottom.

I'm not familiar with clay ponds and can only dream about having a spring, but gravel, particularly limestone gravel, would be a major problem in a closed system.

 

[Bradchr]

Thanks for all the feedback!!!

Couple of more questions - I am going to build the 150 gallon stock tank filter as recommended. I looked at Skimmers - Would the Savio 8000 Skimmer Filter serve my needs? If not any suggestions on which model?

Should I use the UV Filter the can be used with this skimmer or should I use something else?

I am considering a 30 inch spillway (For the waterfall) coming out of the 150 gallon tank filter - keeping in mind that the bottom of the tank will be 2 1/2 feet above the pond (the run would be 15 feet) and I need to run the skimmer and UV filter. Which pump would you recommend? I have read the specs on pumps but am unsure how much the UV, Skimmer, Filter, and the 2 1/2 foot height and 15 foot run will impede the pumps performance.

Winter - This is a spring fed 3500 gallon clay pond (I have 200 gallons a day running out my spill way). I live in Northern Minnesota (it is below zero much of the winter). I was thinking of shutting off the filter and skimmer (draining the lines as well) and running an aeration pump with a pond deicer to keep a hole open. If I left my skimmer int he edge of the pond, will the ice wreck my skimmer? Would I need to take it out?

One final question - the waterfall will be on the north end of the pond and the spillway (to reduce the spring fed water) is on the south end. Where should the skimmer go?

Thanks for all of your help!!

 

[koikeepr]

Yes, that Savio is ideal.

Sequence pumps are very good. I have the William Lim Wave II that I am pleased with. Not sure what Otter has on his pond. How many gallons of water have you calculated that you have? Here's a handy calcuator if you need some help. I think a pump running at least 5000gph should suit you based on what you're describing to account for head and such.

You empty the skimmer of all water in fall, and then you leave it alone. No need to remove it as long as no water is in it to freeze.

Normally, the skimmer goes opposite the waterfall so that the waterfall pushes stuff towards the skimmer. In some instances, that's just not feasible. For example, in my pond, my waterfall is on the back wall, but my skimmer is on the left wall, versus in front of the waterfall. It just would not look good aesthetically if I had the skimmer on the front apron of the pond (what you'll learn is that the Savio is BIG!). So, i incorporated properly placed TPR's to push water along in the proper circular fashion.

 

[Otter]

Couple of more questions - I am going to build the 150 gallon stock tank filter as recommended. I looked at Skimmers - Would the Savio 8000 Skimmer Filter serve my needs? If not any suggestions on which model?

As far as know, Savio doesn't make a "Savio 8000 Skimmer Filter". They call their larger one simply "Skimmerfilter", sometimes it gets the adjectives "full size" or "original" to distinguish it from the compact version. If that's what you mean, it's a solid choice.

Should I use the UV Filter the can be used with this skimmer or should I use something else?

I researched this recently, as I'm adding UV to my pond. Savio's current UVinex system has poly coated bulbs instead of a quartz sleeve, and I couldn't get a straight answer out of Savio's tech support about how long the bulbs last. Hence, I'm going with a similar unit from Emperor Aquatics.
http://www.emperoraquatics-pond.com/advanced_uv_sterilizer.php

If you shop around, you can get a much better price than what is shown on Emperor's site. Vendors sell them below Emperor's minimum advertised price, so you'll have to call or click on something to see the real price.

I am considering a 30 inch spillway (For the waterfall) coming out of the 150 gallon tank filter - keeping in mind that the bottom of the tank will be 2 1/2 feet above the pond (the run would be 15 feet) and I need to run the skimmer and UV filter. Which pump would you recommend? I have read the specs on pumps but am unsure how much the UV, Skimmer, Filter, and the 2 1/2 foot height and 15 foot run will impede the pumps performance.

What size pipe will you be using for the 15' run? Will you have any elbows valves or other fittings?

One final question - the waterfall will be on the north end of the pond and the spillway (to reduce the spring fed water) is on the south end. Where should the skimmer go?

Which way does the wind usually blow? If this changes with the seasons, the fall direction is usually what matters most. Keep in mind that surface winds might not match the winds that bring your weather. Here, storms usually come from the west, but the wind across my pond tends to be from the south. This site has historical data for many weather stations.
http://www.wunderground.com/

 

[coolwind2003a]

Hello Freinds
I have a question I was thinking about removing the rock from arround my pond & putting 4x4 treated wood down on liner & building a walk arround deck on the 3 sides that the watter fall is not on & having about a 6 inch board overhang into top of pond will the treated wood chemical hurt my fish ???

 

[DoDad]

"DIY sand and gravel filter is good for both bio and fines"
Not true it works on fines not bio.

About one inch for every 100-150gph.


That's my personal preference.


If you like.


That's par for the course.

First, you want good mechanical filtration. This might start with the leaf basket in your skimmer or a sieve, but you want something for the finer stuff too. Generally, trying to combine this with the biofilter leads to more maintenance and inferior filtration, but a DIY sand and gravel filter is good for both bio and fines and is easy to clean.
http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68132

Then, you need a biofilter. I suggest you look at the aforementioned SG filter as well as showers and the somewhat new anoxic filter pond.

My post at the end of this thread from last year will get you started on the different types of filters.
https://www.gardenpondforum.com/filter-set-up-t4017.html

I still haven't tried the anoxic filter, and have some doubts about how it works. However, reports from other ponders continue to be good.


Maybe. You'll want more filtration than these usually provide, though.


I have the full size Savio skimmer too, and it's pretty good. OTOH, you could get a pool skimmer for about $30 and plumb it to a DIY leaf basket and prefilter.


Not necessarily.


Other options are usually better.


Probably.


It depends on what you design.


Design your system first, then figure out what pump goes with it.


Tons. Here's a couple to get you started.
http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93019
http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92002


Um....How would you take down a clay pond?


I'm not familiar with clay ponds and can only dream about having a spring, but gravel, particularly limestone gravel, would be a major problem in a closed system.

 

[DrDave]

We have addressed this in several threads, in short yes. Do a search and you will find that I posted the composition of the poisons used in treating wood.

It may be possible to use it if you seal it first, then paint it.