Help with Water Clarity and Mechanical Filters

[Dhub]

Hi All.

I have been a ponder for about 40 days and could use some instruction on issues concerning water clarity and filters.

My pond is right under 4000 gal oval/kidney shaped and has two upflow mechincal filters on either side that feed to water falls. on one side i have 5 filter pads of variable media size and on the other i have bioballs topped by three filter pads.

Additionally i also have some extra fine filtration pads I can also put in. (oh we probably have about 60-70 fish varying in size from two inches to 12 inches with the majority being 6 inches or under)

ok with all that said i am wondering how often i should clean my filters? when we first moved in i was adding the fine filter pads and cleaning the filters every two or three days. the last two weeks i only cleaned them once a week.

I am not sure if i am cleaning them too often or not often enough. When i do clean them I turn off the pumps, pull the pads and then using a separate pump to pump all the nasty dirty water out of the pump wells so it doesn't get recirculated back into the pond.

The reason i am worried is that the filter pads get a heavy layer or particulate on them very quickly. (picture below is the top pad covered in particulate after only two days.

Also the pond water itself is heavy with particulate.

So should i continue to clean the filters as soon as i start see a heavy layer of particulate or to a wait?

Any advice or help would be great.

Thanks,

Dhub

 

[sissy]

turn off your pumps and add koi clay water will go cloudy and then turn back on your filters after an hour and a day or two all that stuff that is in there will be picked up by the koi clay and sent to the filters .I use it all the time .I spread over the top of the pond usually a cup for my 5000 gallon pond and I do it once a month during the pond season.Good for the fish also

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Hi All.

I have been a ponder for about 40 days and could use some instruction on issues concerning water clarity and filters.

My pond is right under 4000 gal oval/kidney shaped and has two upflow mechincal filters on either side that feed to water falls. on one side i have 5 filter pads of variable media size and on the other i have bioballs topped by three filter pads.

Additionally i also have some extra fine filtration pads I can also put in. (oh we probably have about 60-70 fish varying in size from two inches to 12 inches with the majority being 6 inches or under)

ok with all that said i am wondering how often i should clean my filters? when we first moved in i was adding the fine filter pads and cleaning the filters every two or three days. the last two weeks i only cleaned them once a week.

I am not sure if i am cleaning them too often or not often enough. When i do clean them I turn off the pumps, pull the pads and then using a separate pump to pump all the nasty dirty water out of the pump wells so it doesn't get recirculated back into the pond.

The reason i am worried is that the filter pads get a heavy layer or particulate on them very quickly. (picture below is the top pad covered in particulate after only two days.

Also the pond water itself is heavy with particulate.

So should i continue to clean the filters as soon as i start see a heavy layer of particulate or to a wait?

Any advice or help would be great.

Thanks,

Dhub

What would you estimate to be the depth of visibility in your pond? Any photos?

 

[Mmathis]

Hello and welcome! Just curious, but are you checking any water tests on your water: ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH in particular? Are your filters DIY filters and do you know how big they are? Pictures would help, too. We might be able to spot something that you are missing [or not]. If you are checking your water parameters, what have they been running? And we like for you to give us the numbers and not just say, "they're OK." How much and how often are you feeding?

Oh, and I probably missed it, but what kind of pump(s) are you using and do you have a pre-filter?

For one thing, I wonder if your pond is still cycling. And for another, while it's probably not a too-high fish load [yet, anyway], those little guys can put out quite a bit of fish-poo, depending on how much & how often you feed them. You did comment that there has been less particulate material recently -- I notice that too, as it starts to get cooler. As to how often to clean the filters -- I personally would go by how the water looks and the flow rate -- when the water starts looking bad [well, actually, you don't want it to get to that point, but you get my point....], you are getting a reduced flow, and if your water parameters start are looking bad, then clean the filters. It sounds like you are, but be sure you're rinsing them with clean pond water so you're not destroying your beneficial bacteria [though, there is debate about that as well].

Again, post some pictures of your set up.

 

[barryian]

Hi All.

I have been a ponder for about 40 days and could use some instruction on issues concerning water clarity and filters.

My pond is right under 4000 gal oval/kidney shaped and has two upflow mechincal filters on either side that feed to water falls. on one side i have 5 filter pads of variable media size and on the other i have bioballs topped by three filter pads.

Additionally i also have some extra fine filtration pads I can also put in. (oh we probably have about 60-70 fish varying in size from two inches to 12 inches with the majority being 6 inches or under)

ok with all that said i am wondering how often i should clean my filters? when we first moved in i was adding the fine filter pads and cleaning the filters every two or three days. the last two weeks i only cleaned them once a week.

I am not sure if i am cleaning them too often or not often enough. When i do clean them I turn off the pumps, pull the pads and then using a separate pump to pump all the nasty dirty water out of the pump wells so it doesn't get recirculated back into the pond.

The reason i am worried is that the filter pads get a heavy layer or particulate on them very quickly. (picture below is the top pad covered in particulate after only two days.

Also the pond water itself is heavy with particulate.

So should i continue to clean the filters as soon as i start see a heavy layer of particulate or to a wait?

Any advice or help would be great.

Thanks,

Dhub

I was going to ask several questions but someone beat me to the punch. Do you have a bead filter? With a fish load of that in a 40 day old pond, you might want to keep a heavy check on your ammonia and nitrites, not to mention the ph. Do you have your ph stabilized? Ammonia is paramount with that fish load. Another FYI is ... When you clean off those filters, what water are you using? Pond water, tap water? Tap water treated at the source can kill off your nitrifying bacteria. You definitely don't want to lose that bacteria or you'll be a dog chasing it's tail wondering why your ammonia level won't decrease. You mentioned your new so my assumption is you might not know that.

 

[Dave 54]

I was going to ask several questions but someone beat me to the punch. Do you have a bead filter? With a fish load of that in a 40 day old pond, you might want to keep a heavy check on your ammonia and nitrites, not to mention the ph. Do you have your ph stabilized? Ammonia is paramount with that fish load. Another FYI is ... When you clean off those filters, what water are you using? Pond water, tap water? Tap water treated at the source can kill off your nitrifying bacteria. You definitely don't want to lose that bacteria or you'll be a dog chasing it's tail wondering why your ammonia level won't decrease. You mentioned your new so my assumption is you might not know that.

@barryian though I agree with much of what you have to say to Dhub I'd like to show you this article from my friend Pieter Odendaals' koi website South Africa and what he has to say about bacteria :-

http://www.koi4u.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=24&Itemid=191

I believe you may find it quite interesting , we did then tried it and do you know what we found Pieter is right , if you can your thoughts please ?

Dave

 

[mgmine]

I hate to say this but given the work that you are describing and the number of fish I think that you will find your pond is too much to maintain. I'm tired just thinking about working on the filters in the July Texas heat. You shouldn't need three filters and you shouldn't have to clean them that often. Is this a pond that was already in or did you build it? What size are the filters and why are they what ever size they are? To give you an example my pond is about 3000 gallons and sits under several dirty trees. I clean my filter out once a season when I close the pond down. I would let them go and see how many months you can get away with doing nothing. If the water starts slowing down then you will know that the filters need cleaning. If you can't see below the surface add a UV light and see what that gets you. I would also get rid of at least 80 percent of the fish

 

[Meyer Jordan]

@barryian though I agree with much of what you have to say to Dhub I'd like to show you this article from my friend Pieter Odendaals' koi website South Africa and what he has to say about bacteria :-

http://www.koi4u.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=24&Itemid=191

I believe you may find it quite interesting , we did then tried it and do you know what we found Pieter is right , if you can your thoughts please ?

Dave

The linked article is an accurately presented synopsis of scientific fact. A case could be made, however, distinguishing between natural 'sloughing off' and that caused by external forces and the ensuing impact on water quality.

 

[sissy]

That is the main reason I have 2 plant filters they really help and so does the clay .I also found out something about the kitty litter that the one company sent me info as they do not clean the clay they use and cannot guarantee that it is clean or healthy enough for use in a pond .Equipment they use can add stuff to the clay that can be harmful and they cannot say that it is all clean or completely pure

 

[Dhub]

Wow Thank you everyone for the feed back. Let me see is I can answer all the questions, please forgive me if some of the lingo I use is incorrect as i am still learning the vernacular.

• The pond is about 5 years old, my wife and i just purchased the house last month.
• I have added a brand new UV clarifier - green algae does not seem to be a problem.
• The pumps are a 2400gph tetra pumps but do not have a prefilter, they currently just have mesh baskets around them.
• at this time i am doing no water tests as i was unsure what to test for
• filters are not DIY. i don't think. they consist of a waterfall well (not sure if this is the right word) and what i think are different Matala Mats. on the right side of the pond i have some bio balls under the mats
• i have no idea what a bead filter is.
• pond visibility is about 2.5 feet out of 3.5 feet. I can't really make out the bottom of the pond, but if one of the brighter fish is on the bottom i can see it.
• to clean the filters i was using tap water but i will now switch over to using pond water.
• we are currently feeding the fish twice a day but starting tomorrow will only feed once a day because we are about to have a temperature drop.
• if i had to guess i would say that filters hold about 50 gallons of water before releasing back into pond.

We do have lots of plant life in and around pond, but do not seem to have an issue with leaves in the pond.

I do know that the previous owner who built the pond never mucked the pond.

Off of Sissy's suggestion i have already bought some clay.

I do understand that i may have to get read of some of the fish but 80% seems like a very high number.

How long does it take for bacteria to build up in the filters and begin breaking down some of the fish by products?

 

[Dhub]

What would you estimate to be the depth of visibility in your pond? Any photos?

I can't get a good photo of water clarity because of reflections on water surface. i would estimate that i can see about 2.5' down out of 3.5'. if the sun is directly overhead i can just make out the bottom.

 

[Dave 54]

The linked article is an accurately presented synopsis of scientific fact. A case could be made, however, distinguishing between natural 'sloughing off' and that caused by external forces and the ensuing impact on water quality.

However that is how our filter containing the K1, bioballs, biochips is designed to work
It works when forces external to the filter media [namely their neighbouring K1, bio balls. bio chips] are caused through the action of airstones to crash into one another each and every time sloughing off more bacteria.
By this action they are continually creating new helpful bacteria which then sloughs off to be replaced by yet more helpful bacteria, etc, etc.....
They continue as little factories to do this 24/7 365 days a year .


Dave

 

[sissy]

first thing when you have the money get a new pump to save electric 187 watts my 2400gph laguna pump hit it;s sweet spot at 40 watts at this time .Seems the bigger the hose on laguna pumps the less electric they use .I also have a 2900 gph one

 

[barryian]

@barryian though I agree with much of what you have to say to Dhub I'd like to show you this article from my friend Pieter Odendaals' koi website South Africa and what he has to say about bacteria :-

http://www.koi4u.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=24&Itemid=191

I believe you may find it quite interesting , we did then tried it and do you know what we found Pieter is right , if you can your thoughts please ?

Dave

That's a great article. Everyone is so rigid when it comes to nitrifying bacteria, including myself, but to a degree. I usually don't rinse the savio with a hose unless I'm lazy or careful because articles say you'll kill the bacteria with the small amount of chlorination in the tap. I've done it both ways, never have an ammonia spike.
Though controversial, I do PP treatments here and there with the bead filter on bypass and the savio filter in place. No problem. I was told, contrary to my better judgement that if a PP treatment was done with the filter running, the bacteria, would for most part survive. Not sure I'd try it but the article makes perfect sense from my experience. I have a blower on my bead filter to circulate the media, then backwash & rinse. One would think you would wash out the nitrifying bacteria if overdone, but I've overdone it & still never had an ammonia spike. Thoughts are like the article says, the bacteria is quite resilient.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

However that is how our filter containing the K1, bioballs, biochips is designed to work
It works when forces external to the filter media [namely their neighbouring K1, bio balls. bio chips] are caused through the action of airstones to crash into one another each and every time sloughing off more bacteria.
By this action they are continually creating new helpful bacteria which then sloughs off to be replaced by yet more helpful bacteria, etc, etc.....
They continue as little factories to do this 24/7 365 days a year .


Dave

The only problem with the scenario described is that it takes hours for bacteria to recolonize and reach the population levels existing before the forced sloughing, theoretically setting up a potential increase in Ammonia and/or Nitrite levels. Bacteria colonies will only grow to a size that can be supported by available catalytic agents, in this case Ammonia and Nitrite. Reduction of colony size effectively creates a temporary spike, albeit maybe small, in Ammonia and/or Nitrite.