Hey from Salon Arm, BC
- Thread starter NinjaDog
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j.w
I Love my Goldies
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Mmathis
TurtleMommy
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Hello and welcome! Maybe you could tell us a little more information and soon we’ll get to see your pictures!
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Welcome!
Here's the picture:
Here's the picture:
Thanks evryone!
So we have a waterfall about 7 feet of so of rocks stacked up with the biggest on the bottom. Big boulders a machine would have put in and, part of the retaining wall in our landscaping.
A larger pond on bottom, original liner (1992 maybe) does not leak. One of those black box skimmers. A smaller pond on top to drop into a water fall. Had a 3 hp pump but replaced for a 3/4 hp and are we happier with the flow now...It was loud and a huge rush of water coming down like a spring run off, the 3/4 would be like the late summer mellow flow. It sill loses some water and I think it's within those rocks. Mostly river rock softball size and watermelon size rocks just loose in both the top and bottom ponds. Anyway looks and sounds great on any occasion like breakfast. There is a switch in the house to turn the pump on and a great view of the waterfall from the kitchen table.
Anyway we obviously had a leaking problem... The pond on top that was in very rough shape with plastic bags and black goop patching holes...Not a pretty sight. I covered it with sand to make the upper pond a little smaller, shaped it with sandbags, and sealed it with a new rubber type pond liner as best I could. The winter before the pump cracked so it was replaced with a way less powerful pump, 3 hp to 3/4 hp like I mentioned. It still had a leak. Both ponds could hold water for days so definitely not the pool liners. I am pretty sure there is no liner under the rocks and that is where it's escaping. I tried to seal cracks with waterfall foam and we can run the falls for about 8-10 hours before it hits the bottom of the skimmer. Used to be like 2 or 4 hours before the foam fix.
Basically looking to seal the rocks with some type of water proof product that looks like grout, sand or concrete...Something to apply to natural rock to make a permanent watertight seal that can handle a waterfall.
So we have a waterfall about 7 feet of so of rocks stacked up with the biggest on the bottom. Big boulders a machine would have put in and, part of the retaining wall in our landscaping.
A larger pond on bottom, original liner (1992 maybe) does not leak. One of those black box skimmers. A smaller pond on top to drop into a water fall. Had a 3 hp pump but replaced for a 3/4 hp and are we happier with the flow now...It was loud and a huge rush of water coming down like a spring run off, the 3/4 would be like the late summer mellow flow. It sill loses some water and I think it's within those rocks. Mostly river rock softball size and watermelon size rocks just loose in both the top and bottom ponds. Anyway looks and sounds great on any occasion like breakfast. There is a switch in the house to turn the pump on and a great view of the waterfall from the kitchen table.
Anyway we obviously had a leaking problem... The pond on top that was in very rough shape with plastic bags and black goop patching holes...Not a pretty sight. I covered it with sand to make the upper pond a little smaller, shaped it with sandbags, and sealed it with a new rubber type pond liner as best I could. The winter before the pump cracked so it was replaced with a way less powerful pump, 3 hp to 3/4 hp like I mentioned. It still had a leak. Both ponds could hold water for days so definitely not the pool liners. I am pretty sure there is no liner under the rocks and that is where it's escaping. I tried to seal cracks with waterfall foam and we can run the falls for about 8-10 hours before it hits the bottom of the skimmer. Used to be like 2 or 4 hours before the foam fix.
Basically looking to seal the rocks with some type of water proof product that looks like grout, sand or concrete...Something to apply to natural rock to make a permanent watertight seal that can handle a waterfall.
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Are you able to remove a rock or two to see if there is a level where there is wet soil behind?
Could a rock have shifted during the winter and started to divert water back towards the hill?
Could a rock have shifted during the winter and started to divert water back towards the hill?
I think it's more along the lines of things shifted 10 years ago or was diverting since day 1 when they built this place. Nothing has shifted in the 3 years we have lived here. There is water seeping out of the rocks in places, so pretty sure it's getting in behind....I was going to make a thread about this but having issues with posing pics.
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There's one person here I can think of that might be able to make a suggestion for which product would be best for your situation, @Mucky_Waters , plus he's from your area.
Hopefully he'll check in on the forum this weekend.
For posting pictures, if you can get the picture on your computer desktop, just drag the image into the box where you type your forum replies.
Hopefully he'll check in on the forum this weekend.
For posting pictures, if you can get the picture on your computer desktop, just drag the image into the box where you type your forum replies.
That's a tough one, there really should have been a liner installed behind the rock wall, without that I'm sorry to say you are always going to have a certain amount of leakage between the rocks no matter what product you use. Personally, I would just use standard cement mortar (with some concrete coloring to match the rocks) and liberally pack (point) it between all the joints the best I could. It may detract from the natural stack look of the rock somewhat but I don't know what else you can do at this point short of dismantling the wall, installing a liner and rebuilding it.
Fixing this issue is really going to be a hands-on type of thing, look at how the water flows and trying to fill and plug the suspect areas the best you can, then repeat, and in the end, you will likely still need to top up the water level frequently. If it makes you feel any better, big waterfalls like that are notorious for losing water through splashing and evaporation anyway even if they are perfectly sealed and thus require frequent top offs.
About the only other tip, I could offer is to make sure your rocks are very clean before mortaring in the joints, you might even want to pressure wash the areas you plan to fill if there is any moss or other loose debris (waterfall foam?) between the rocks.
The second half of this video gives a good example of how to mortar in the rock joints to get the best seal.
Fixing this issue is really going to be a hands-on type of thing, look at how the water flows and trying to fill and plug the suspect areas the best you can, then repeat, and in the end, you will likely still need to top up the water level frequently. If it makes you feel any better, big waterfalls like that are notorious for losing water through splashing and evaporation anyway even if they are perfectly sealed and thus require frequent top offs.
About the only other tip, I could offer is to make sure your rocks are very clean before mortaring in the joints, you might even want to pressure wash the areas you plan to fill if there is any moss or other loose debris (waterfall foam?) between the rocks.
The second half of this video gives a good example of how to mortar in the rock joints to get the best seal.
I forgot to mention that the point where the water transitions from the top pond to the falls should be the first point to suspect a leak, and possibly modify. Can you post a close up picture of that area and describe what we are seeing?
You can practice your picture posting skills a little more.
You can practice your picture posting skills a little more.
I don't know what was happening with my pics before, they showed up as I made the message but gone when previewed. MitchM made it work... Well see if these one work. Usually just do wraps but whatever.
Waterfall2 is a close up up where its trickling out from behind the rocks.
Waterfall3 is a top down view
Watrerfall4 shows the upper pond. The supply hose is just tucked into that cinder block for now. I want to do some more work on this part of it.
I'll get a close up later of the falls transition part. It's just the rubber liner folded back. Definitely another part that will need some attention with the mortar.
Would you also recommend the same cement mortar stuff if I wanted to do the pools? I'd like to shape them and just give the pools a finished look.
Waterfall2 is a close up up where its trickling out from behind the rocks.
Waterfall3 is a top down view
Watrerfall4 shows the upper pond. The supply hose is just tucked into that cinder block for now. I want to do some more work on this part of it.
I'll get a close up later of the falls transition part. It's just the rubber liner folded back. Definitely another part that will need some attention with the mortar.
Would you also recommend the same cement mortar stuff if I wanted to do the pools? I'd like to shape them and just give the pools a finished look.
