Hi from New Zealand

[MarcusNZ]

Hi all,

I live in a coastal spot in New Zealand called Tauranga where the climate is pretty timid all year around. I had a little spare time on my hands this summer so I decided to create a water feature. With no experience and a heap of enthusiasim I did a little investigating and chatted with a few people about good and bad things to take into account. I did everything by hand including moving and positioning rocks ranging up to 200kgs into the furthurest point on my section with very limited access. It was a long drawn out and sometimes painfull battle but the perseverance paid off in the end. About 6 weeks later and I have a little under 2000gal Firestone lined pond, running a "Pondone" Clari Tec 10000UV filter with a 24/7 waterfall supplied by a 6000l/hr pump (I'm actually only getting 3600l/hr due to head pressure resistance).

I used mortar to lock in the rocks surrounding the pond and concrete to fabricate parts of and lock in the larger rocks for the waterfall. I washed everything down well and pumped out before filling the pond. I then ran the pump for a week before introducing 5 Lilys and one Lotus. A week or so later I added a 2ft fish tunnel & 4 (50mm) Comet goldfish. They seemed happy enough after 4 days so I introduced 6 Fantails (120-160mm) and a few buckets of fresh water weed from a local river.

I have since had 3 of of the comets and 4 of the fantails die over the span of a month. I purchased a testing kit and found the only thing out of spec was pH which measured 9 (or more) on the high pH scale. Everything else (Ammonia, Nitrites, & Nitrates) were all 0. At this stage I also realised that I had the Lotus sitting on a cinder block and the pump sitting on a large paving stone (to keep it off the bottom). Over the first month, I swapped out A LOT of water to try and drag the pH down as advised by a local store owner that I got my gear through. Tap water here is pH7.6 and the pH can vary a lot over the day (7.8 first thing in the morning and 8.4 late in the afternoon).

I have resorted to isolating my waterfall out of the equation, lowering the level of the pond water below the rock boarder and recircing straight back into the pond from the filter. This appears to have worked for now (no deaths in 8 days) and my las 3 remaining fish seem happier and more active than ever. Eight days ago I swapped out approximately 2/3rds of the pond water and 14hrs later tested from both the water that was pooling in parts of the waterfall and the now isolated pond. The pHs were 9+ & 7.8 respectively at 8am. I concluded that the high pH had to be coming from the concrete.

It has been disturbing seeing the fish die off after putting so much effort into making a haven for them. I thought this was going to beautify my yard and make a nice relaxing spot for me and the family to enjoy watching the fish playing in a tranquil setting. Instead it has been countless hours of stressing, changing out water, collecting dead fish, masses of phone calls, trolling the internet looking for possible causes/solutions and all the while wondering who was going to die next. The fantails were all quite large and given to me from a workmate. He has been good about it probably sensing how gutted and frustrated I am to lose the beautiful healthy fish he gave me. He is prepared to send a few more fish my way but I'm wanting to wait until the waterfall has been in use for a few months with no deaths.

I have purchased a small container of potable concrete sealer that I will be using to apply a few coats on to the morter of the pond boader and every concrete surface that I can get to on the waterfall during my next days off. Any other advice would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Marcus.

 

[sissy]

welcome and my ph is 9 and have not lost one fish in over 8 years .I test my water but now that is balanced with plants I don't do it as much .I did not use mortar I just dry stacked them in my small creek (if you can call it that )Do you have well water or city water .Is there anything being washed into the pond and did you let the pond acclimate and filters run awhile .I left my pond without fish for over 2 months before adding my fish .

 

[MarcusNZ]

Hi Sissy,

We have had a lot of rain in the last week or so and there have been no "incidents" due to run off.
I fill the pond with Town supply water (metered $$$).
After my first fill I ran the pump through the filter (UV lamp turned off) using the waterfall for the first week prior to adding my plants. I added my first four fish (Comets) about a week after that. The six larger Fantails arrived about four days later. I guess I may have added them too soon? The mosquito larvae seemed to be thriving so I assumed fish would be fine too.

The water went murky right before I did my last large water change just over a week ago which coincided with my most recent Fantail death (the fish died before the water change which prompted the change). This is also when I turned on the UV lamp for the first time.

How long should it take my pond to acclimate or become ballanced? Boy, this is more complex than I would have figured before starting...

Thanks for your help BTW.

 

[Big Lou]

Maybe I missed it but did you use the appropriate amount of water decholoranater?

Read this web article about ph. Good luck and welcome.

Big Lou


"Water pH
The pH range of 6 to 8.5 is acceptable for most pond life.  The primary concern with pH is its direct relationship to the toxicity of ammonia and nitrite.  Each pH interger above the neutral 7 reflects a tenfold increase in such toxicities.

Any pH value below the neutral 7 is considered acidic.  Baking soda or ground limestone will raise the pH level.

pH values over 8.5 will definitely stress the fish to the point of disease.  We receive some calls where the pond owner claims to have a pH reading of 9.0 or more, and the cause for this is cement or mortar leeching toxic lime into the water.  Bricks  or untreated mortar blocks used as plant pedestals, run-off water, and reconstituted materials used in or around the pond may be washing in leeched lime which can cause severely high pH readings.

We suggest you use a commercial lime neutralizer or a nontoxic pool sealant paint if you have a concrete pond. 

If the pH is normally high in your tap water, we suggest obtaining more suitable fish for your pond, such as the common goldfish, shubunkin, or comet goldfish.  These fish can tolerate higher (non-toxic) pH levels."

 

[sissy]

city water usually has chemicals in it and needs pretreated .Gold fish are not as fussy about water quality as koi are ,I have both .I use quilt batting to prefilter fine stuff out .I waited 2 months but I also used some of the water from the old pond to seed the filter and to help it start it's bio load .Adding water with out testing can cause fish loss if not tested and pretreated .

 

[sissy]

My pond ph has been the same for over 4 years at 9 and never have had a problem .Remember temps out side and acid rain can cause problems and maybe you should get a kh test kit .

 

[j.w]

Marcus

 

[adavisus]

It's a coin flip what hazard is affecting the fish, the ph is a severe stress, who knows what might have come along on the river weed you brought in, a wild card may be some toxic plant around the pond dropping sap. Euphorbia might be the villain.

I'd suggest you move the surviving fish to a kiddy paddling pool and give the pond at least two weeks to settle down. Chatting to a local pet shop, aquarist, pondkeeper might narrow down what local hazards might apply.

A good indicator that a pond is habitable for fish is when you can see aquatic organisms like daphnia thrive...

Regards, andy
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21940871@N06/
http://swglist.wordpress.com/

 

[MarcusNZ]

- Hi Big Lou. Thanks for the pH info.
The local fish guy here said the town water supply here is pretty good and requires no treatment. I'm pretty much clueless and have relied on his word & expertise seeing as he has been in the pond and fish arena for many years. I hope he is right... I made sure to use the spray function on the hose when adding (other that oxygenating, I'm not sure what other benefits that offers ). If lack of conditioning has been the issue, I have obviously been making matters worse (or at the very least, not helping) with the regular water changes. The Ammonia, Nitrates and Nitrites have all been reading zeros to this point in time and it has been 8 days since I last added water (excluding rain water). I also added a few inches of 15-20mm Riverstone to the bottom of the pond right before my last water change which muddied the water even after a 2/3rd water change. The water is now crystal clear again.

-Sissy. As I mentioned above, I hope the local fish guy has it right about our town supply. Temperature wise, the fantails have come out of a smaller, more shallow pond. We are mid summer right now with temperatures around 20 degrees C. I will get a kh kit on my next days off thanks

- JW. Thanks for the warm welcome

- Andy. Re. Chatting to a local pet shop, aquarist, pondkeeper etc The main guy I have been chatting to sells pond gear, fish, plants, "the works". He is an English chap that has been doing ponds and fish for 35years.

I'm hoping that the waterfall concrete goes off (cures) a little more over the next few weeks while I have it isolated out of the loop and I will also apply a few coats of sealer to any concrete or mortar that I can. I will also get a kh testing kit as suggested by Sissy. I know my current pH climbs between .5 and .6pH during daylight hours. the 3 remaining fish seem happier (more active) than any of the fish were pre-8 days ago (dropping water level below rocks, removing flow over waterfall and 2/3rd water change), so I'm hoping things are on the way up.

Thanks everybody,
Marcus.

 

[Becky]

Welcome to the forums Marcus! :wave:

 

[MarcusNZ]

Thanks Becky. :regular_waving_emot:

I'm loving the site BTW. Lots of great info for me to digest, some inspiring stories and photos and most of all very helpful members which is invaluable for a pond/fish rookie like myself.

I was thinking about posting some pics of my pond construction. Where would be the best place to do this?

 

[mtpond]

Welcome Marcus.

 

[addy1]

Thanks Becky. :regular_waving_emot:

I'm loving the site BTW. Lots of great info for me to digest, some inspiring stories and photos and most of all very helpful members which is invaluable for a pond/fish rookie like myself.

I was thinking about posting some pics of my pond construction. Where would be the best place to do this?

Welcome to our group, glad you joined!

Go to the construction forum and start a construction thread, or the pond photo section, either would work.


http://www.gardenpon...nd-photography/

http://www.gardenpon...tion-equipment/

 

[fishin4cars]

Welcome aboard Marcus, Is it possible for you to post any pics? The rocks in the bottom "COULD " cause issues later on, just a heads up as settling mum can be trapped in the rocks causing issues down the road, MOST pond keepers have found that they had to remove the rocks out just to clean and eventually remove them completely. You may want to do some reading on cycling a pond "WITH" ammonia. NO FISH, this method has helped some start their ponds up and get through the cycling period without losing fish. High PH can cause stress, but a bigger issue is ammonia is very much more toxic when the PH is high than when it is neutral or slightly acidic than when it's in the high range. Even small amounts of ammonia can be highly toxic in high PH ranges. New Cement can cause high PH, but rarely is that the cause of the fish dying. It's just another factor in a larger picture. Be sure and check carefully before using "ANY" sealer, most sealer products can cause problems as well and may not help your situation at all, In fact some can cause even worse problems. If it were me I would do a # of things, First, drain the pond and remove the rocks off the bottom and start with a clean slate, 2nd, add water and get all your water parameters where they need to be and make the adjustments before trying to add any living creatures. Then once all that is done start adding straight ammonia to the pond and monitor your water. You'll see ammonia climbing at first, then you'll start seeing the nitrite climb, at this point do not add any more ammonia, the nitrite will peak very high and then start dropping, at this point start watching nitrates, Once you have some nitrate readings the ammonia and nitrites should fall to zero. again check the water and make sure PH, GH, KH have stayed in your desired range. This process could take up to 8 weeks but using this method usually takes less time than this as this is how long it usually takes to go through naturally. If the PH continues to climb during all this there is a source that is causing it in the pond. In most cases a particular kind of rock, or substrate a plant is planted in is the cause. If the cement is causing this it should not climb as fast since you have already filled let run and emptied then refilled and allowed time to settle this round. This is when I would start adding a few very inexpensive fish. Once the water has gone through the cycle and the water parameters have now become stable. New ponds can be challenging, some will give you headaches, some will go through the cycle period without any issues at all. I can tell you first hand, I built two 9-10 thousand gallon ponds this year, one started up with no problems at all, one took almost 4 months to get clear and stable. Both set up with almost identical primary filters. Why? I really don't know, but I can tell you after building over 20 ponds in over 25 years no two run a like, and no two go through the same exact issues when starting up. Have patience, Your on the right track, read as much as you can, ask questions, learn how to take care of the water and how to adjust water correctly. Remember that the water is the key, good water=healthy fish in most cases. Unhealthy water causes hidden problems that can drive you crazy. LOL Good luck

 

[sissy]

if you go to the construction we can not give opinions if i remember correctly sorry that was showcase geeze talk about senior moment .Agree no 2 ponds alike and no weather conditions the same