How long to quarantine new fish before putting in pond?

[bagsmom]

Hi, All!
I am pretty sure a few of my 8 goldfish have gone to the great beyond. We have hawks, raccoons, and herons in the area. They might just be really good hiders! That is my hope, since I haven't seen any predation on our trail cam. Anyway, I've set up a small tank with pond water. I want to get some more goldfish but I will keep them in the tank until I am sure they are healthy. How long should they be in the quarantine tank before putting them in the pond? (I'm in GA. We have the typical up and down temps here of late winter. 27 tomorrow morning and 81 by Thursday!)

 

[Mgessert]

Well, I usually quarantine for at least 30 days. That being said, some just dump them in on day one and hope for the best, and some say never bring in new stock once you know you have a healthy population. If they’re coming from a breeder who monitors health with necropsies and pathogen testing, it’s less risky than if they’re from a pet store of unknown status. A good compromise is to get them from a like minded consciencious friend or neighbor who will tell you if they’ve had any health issues. Sorry for the long answer, but there isn’t a simple answer. If all of your fish are gone and you’re starting with a new population, you don’t have much to lose though. And then there’s Mother Nature, who is out of our control.

 

[bagsmom]

I can quarantine for 30 days. I got most of my "starter" fish as super cheap feeder goldfish. I got lucky there and they survived and thrived. At one point, I got some new ones from a smaller pet store and they did well. I tried getting some larger (more expensive) ones from a small business pond specialty store. I lost a couple of those to unknown causes. I think I will go with the small pet store and quarantine for a month. Surely by then, any health issues would have shown up. And by then, spring will probably be here to stay!

 

[Mgessert]

Some goldfish can carry carp pox and infect others without ever showing signs during quarantine. Most of us just learn to live with it. I first saw it in one of my fish two years after I added any new ones. We renamed him “Lumpy”. Another one showed signs the following year, but it’s lesions cleared up. Here’s a description. https://cafishvet.com/fish-health-disease/koi-pox-aka-carp-pox/

 

[GBBUDD]

@bagsmom as mentioned it is best to get from a dealer who openly tells you they have a new shipment coming in and quarantine is until x day. They usually will test a handful of fish for any issues such as hpv . When they have them in the tank they will run a general medication to kill anything that maybe hanging on.
But to quarantine your own i would do a salt quarantine station that will kill a lot of the common problems. I myself have only been buying from three dealers and they do quarantine.

As to loosing a couple fish your pond is brand new and it is not unusual to have a loss or five. Especially after the winter.

 

[WaterGardener]

Fish can adapt to their situation. So your fish, if there are any survivors, will have adapted to their particular circumstances. They may not be succeptable to the fungi, bacteria and parasites that are in your pond.

New fish may not have those same resistances and they may be immune to other pathogens that they bring with them, exposing your current fish to new threats.

All the fish in both groups are healthy and disease free so there is no obvious issue with any of them.

I am on the extreme end when it comes to quarantine and always quarantine for at least 6 months. I have even done a shotgun treatment to make sure new fish don't bring in anything. I also put one of the fish in the pond with the new ones to see if both the current fish and the new fish will have any problems.

Best of luck with your new fish.

 

[bagsmom]

@bagsmom as mentioned it is best to get from a dealer who openly tells you they have a new shipment coming in and quarantine is until x day. They usually will test a handful of fish for any issues such as hpv . When they have them in the tank they will run a general medication to kill anything that maybe hanging on.
But to quarantine your own i would do a salt quarantine station that will kill a lot of the common problems. I myself have only been buying from three dealers and they do quarantine.

As to loosing a couple fish your pond is brand new and it is not unusual to have a loss or five. Especially after the winter.

I think any losses are from marauders. My two largest fish haven't been seen in weeks. They were also the most active and the most brightly colored. I had a yellow comet and an orange one -- haven't seen hide nor hair in a while. If they died due to illness or something, I would think they would eventually end up in the intake bay or floating along the edge. They were the leaders of the "group swims" - always at the front of the bunch. It makes me think something got them.
I suppose it is possible that something scared them and they are just really, really hiding. But I don't have high hopes.
Our pond store does quarantine - but I lost a couple of those and they were a lot more expensive.
Maybe I will pick out some attractive feeders and let them live inside with some salt for a while.
Since my pond is out there in Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom, I know there will be predation - so I don't want to spend too much money on fish that will be eaten.
I am still hoping for a miracle with the orange and yellow ones. They were pretty, fun fish!

 

[Lisak1]

New fish may not have those same resistances and they may be immune to other pathogens that they bring with them, exposing your current fish to new threats.

This is where I get hung up on the fish quarantine idea. It's indeed important to make sure the new fish aren't obviously sick - but if you're using a reputable dealer, that should have already been established. All good fish sellers quarantine their own stock before they sell to the public.

So you bring home healthy fish, your fish in the pond are healthy... should be ok, right? BUT what if this is a situation where the fish in the pond have resistance to something your new fish have never encountered. They're "healthy" but they are carrying - or living with - something that may pose an unknown risk to your new fish. The quarantine protocol is always geared toward protecting your current stock, but the new fish could just as easily be affected by joining your fish in the established pond. Groups of living creatures that exist together adapt to things that can prove harmful to a new arrival. I have no actual way to prove it, but my instincts tell me this is probably even more true in an outdoor pond where all kinds of things can make their way into the water.

OR same situation in reverse - the new fish make it out of "quarantine" and all look great, but they have "a thing" that your pond fish have never encountered. No matter how long they stay in quarantine (which would be more accurately called isolation) they will appear healthy as whatever "it" is isn't affecting them. Eventually you have to put them in the pond and then hope for the best.

Not trying to discourage anyone from doing a quarantine, just sharing what goes on in my mind - which always goes one step further. I look at the situation from one side... and then move to the other to see it from that angle and see if the process holds up. In this case I think it's a tad flawed.

 

[bagsmom]

I guess it's a danged if you do, danged if you don't situation.
Right now, I am pretty sure I have 5 goldfish and a bunch of minnows. The pond is decent sized and I feel like the system could benefit from some more fish. The two missing fish were the biggest - about 6 inches. The remaining goldfish are 3 - 4 inches.
Should I just not get more fish and wait a few years for them to reproduce?
@Lisak1 - yes - with all the birds that bathe in the pond and deer, foxes, raccoons, and foxes visiting to drink (and eat!) there are probably different kinds of crud getting into the water.
Do I not add any more fish? I hate to spend more money on the "fancy" goldfish if they will just be eaten.
Or do I do the best I can with the cheaper fish, observing them for a while to see if they have any obvious diseases that will kill them soon - and then put them in the pond and hope for the best?
It is a wildlife pond with all sorts of stuff getting in there. Definitely not a controlled or protected environment.
What to do? What to do?

 

[bagsmom]

Here's the pond this morning. 29 degrees this morning and 81 expected by Thursday! I am finally getting back to the landscaping around the pond. Everything looks so barren and sad without all the plants growing. I have my list of plants to replace -- I had citronella around the pond and it did wonderfully! I will definitely get more of that. And the dwarf papyrus in the bog was great too. By mid April, it should be safe to plant. I would love to be done with the rocks and stepping stones and such by summer - and have a nice place to sit and swing and watch the fish and dragonflies!

 

[WaterGardener]

The points that Lisak1 makes are the reasons I did shotgun treatments AND introduce a fish from the pond to the new ones.

I could feel pretty confident that way that new pathogens would not be introduced. After treatments were done, I could put a pond fish or two into the mix and felt that I should be able to see if there were any problems from either group of fish.

Or maybe I'm just fooling myself and the outcome would be the same no matter what preventive measures were taken.

But since I'm paranoid about these things, I choose to err on the side of caution, pobatbly too much so.

 

[bagsmom]

The points that Lisak1 makes are the reasons I did shotgun treatments AND introduce a fish from the pond to the new ones.

I could feel pretty confident that way that new pathogens would not be introduced. After treatments were done, I could put a pond fish or two into the mix and felt that I should be able to see if there were any problems from either group of fish.

Or maybe I'm just fooling myself and the outcome would be the same no matter what preventive measures were taken.

But since I'm paranoid about these things, I choose to err on the side of caution, pobatbly too much so.

I like that idea - moving a pond fish to be with the others - but I know I couldn't catch one!
Last year, when one I brought in was dying, even then I couldn't catch it! I would see it looking like it was moments from death, near the edge, barely hanging on. I'd sneak over with my big skimmer net and danged if it didn't muster up the energy to dart away. I had to wait for it to die completely.
The little boogers are fast!

 

[WaterGardener]

Catching them is the biggest flaw in that plan!

 

[GBBUDD]

I think any losses are from marauders. My two largest fish haven't been seen in weeks. They were also the most active and the most brightly colored. I had a yellow comet and an orange one -- haven't seen hide nor hair in a while. If they died due to illness or something, I would think they would eventually end up in the intake bay or floating along the edge. They were the leaders of the "group swims" - always at the front of the bunch. It makes me think something got them.
I suppose it is possible that something scared them and they are just really, really hiding. But I don't have high hopes.
Our pond store does quarantine - but I lost a couple of those and they were a lot more expensive.
Maybe I will pick out some attractive feeders and let them live inside with some salt for a while.
Since my pond is out there in Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom, I know there will be predation - so I don't want to spend too much money on fish that will be eaten.
I am still hoping for a miracle with the orange and yellow ones. They were pretty, fun fish!

The little boogers are fast!

thats why i built the narrow intake bay opening. i can never catch a fish in 6 foot deep water

 

[GBBUDD]

Here's the pond this morning. 29 degrees this morning and 81 expected by Thursday! I am finally getting back to the landscaping around the pond. Everything looks so barren and sad without all the plants growing. I have my list of plants to replace -- I had citronella around the pond and it did wonderfully! I will definitely get more of that. And the dwarf papyrus in the bog was great too. By mid April, it should be safe to plant. I would love to be done with the rocks and stepping stones and such by summer - and have a nice place to sit and swing and watch the fish and dragonflies!

You did a nice job on the long awaited pond @bagsmom