How many is too many?

[rubyduby]

After putting in the shelves my pond went from what I thought was going to be about 1200 gallons to only about 900 gallons so my question is how many shubunkins can I house in that amount without stressing the system or my fish?

 

[brokensword]

it's more a matter of filtration, Ruby; the more you have, the more fish you can have. Now, I understand your question but what I just said will benefit you more than hitting a certain number. Let's say you have NO filter and only some water movement/aeration; considering where you live (temps), I'd say stay under 20 and WATCH as you hit that limit. And realize, I'm talking adult goldfish, not the size you typically buy them at. ANNNNND you're not overfeeding. So, you see, lots of params that can go wonky and be confusing when it comes to keeping fish. The moment you start seeing deaths, you need a plan to stop what's happening, or, you can overfilter and stay ahead of the curve. That's why we're passionate about bog filtration, 30% of the pond, and upping that as you increase your herd.

SOME might intimate that I'M overstocked (okay, yeah, maybe so, but I ain't gonna admit it jus' yet!) at over 100 gf, most of which are 8+" and 42 koi, most of which are under 8". I expect issues but I'm watching and doing stuff like I mentioned above. Should issues begin, I'll start re-homing. But I'd rather not, you know? I tend to grow fond of my little finny kids; the ONLY reason (other than personal desire) I expanded my 2500 gallon pond into 7,000 was because of the koi; I had one winter death, the water wasn't keeping clear, and I saw the writing on the wall. If you're not ready to expand as I did, you need to up the filter system to keep up or, rehome. And you'll probably have fry that live to be part of your herd, so think on that. You can mitigate some of that by NOT FEEDING during spawning season(s). Really helps! For a couple years before expansion (and I had 100 gf then but no koi) I didn't have any eggs/fry make it, so it's possible to keep a consistent population.

Not sure this helps, hurts, or just leaves you bawling in a fear or curled up in a ball, but welcome to PONDING! heh heh

 

[rubyduby]

it's more a matter of filtration, Ruby; the more you have, the more fish you can have. Now, I understand your question but what I just said will benefit you more than hitting a certain number. Let's say you have NO filter and only some water movement/aeration; considering where you live (temps), I'd say stay under 20 and WATCH as you hit that limit. And realize, I'm talking adult goldfish, not the size you typically buy them at. ANNNNND you're not overfeeding. So, you see, lots of params that can go wonky and be confusing when it comes to keeping fish. The moment you start seeing deaths, you need a plan to stop what's happening, or, you can overfilter and stay ahead of the curve. That's why we're passionate about bog filtration, 30% of the pond, and upping that as you increase your herd.

SOME might intimate that I'M overstocked (okay, yeah, maybe so, but I ain't gonna admit it jus' yet!) at over 100 gf, most of which are 8+" and 42 koi, most of which are under 8". I expect issues but I'm watching and doing stuff like I mentioned above. Should issues begin, I'll start re-homing. But I'd rather not, you know? I tend to grow fond of my little finny kids; the ONLY reason (other than personal desire) I expanded my 2500 gallon pond into 7,000 was because of the koi; I had one winter death, the water wasn't keeping clear, and I saw the writing on the wall. If you're not ready to expand as I did, you need to up the filter system to keep up or, rehome. And you'll probably have fry that live to be part of your herd, so think on that. You can mitigate some of that by NOT FEEDING during spawning season(s). Really helps! For a couple years before expansion (and I had 100 gf then but no koi) I didn't have any eggs/fry make it, so it's possible to keep a consistent population.

Not sure this helps, hurts, or just leaves you bawling in a fear or curled up in a ball, but welcome to PONDING! heh heh

View attachment 145602

Okay, thanks for taking the time to write all of that Brokensword…lots of good advice there…I thought there might just be a rule of thumb like “1000 gallons per koi”

 

[brokensword]

Okay, thanks for taking the time to write all of that Brokensword…lots of good advice there…I thought there might just be a rule of thumb like “1000 gallons per koi”

well yeah, that IS an 'ism' we promulgate, but goldfish are a bit different and like I said, it's all about how much filtering you can do and the maintenance thereafter. The absolute best wisdom is 'few fish per pond' as then, you can't really overwhelm it, within reason, as some think 100 gallons is a pond and start trying to apply these 'isms'. 100 gallons, imo, is an aquarium, so...

 

[SarahT]

Hiya Rubyduby! I find that hot pond water in the long hot Florida summer (hot water holds less oxygen than warm/ cool water) can be a bigger concern than northern ponders have. I highly recommend you start with fewer fish, let the pond mature, and see how the summer goes.
I have one koi and 3 goldfish who moved with me last year; they got a slightly bigger pond (1200 gallons), and the goldfish frolicing began. By the mid summer, goldfish babies stressed the oxygen load and water quality in the pond and the koi was not doing so well (he's fine now). I added an aerator, some floating shade (boogie board), donated some babies to the pet store, finished the bog (thanks GPF for advice) and pond water quality got better. I'm interested in seeing how summer 2022 will go.
You can always add fish as time goes on.

 

[rubyduby]

Hiya Rubyduby! I find that hot pond water in the long hot Florida summer (hot water holds less oxygen than warm/ cool water) can be a bigger concern than northern ponders have. I highly recommend you start with fewer fish, let the pond mature, and see how the summer goes.
I have one koi and 3 goldfish who moved with me last year; they got a slightly bigger pond (1200 gallons), and the goldfish frolicing began. By the mid summer, goldfish babies stressed the oxygen load and water quality in the pond and the koi was not doing so well (he's fine now). I added an aerator, some floating shade (boogie board), donated some babies to the pet store, finished the bog (thanks GPF for advice) and pond water quality got better. I'm interested in seeing how summer 2022 will go.
You can always add fish as time goes on.

Thank you, this is great advice SarahT....I will not add any more fish and hopefully any fry will be eaten by the adults Boogie board was a good idea

 

[GBBUDD]

it's more a matter of filtration

Two thumbs up But in the same breath if your filter goes down from lack of power then it is how many for the size area before there is too many and the answer is look at any fresh water pond and the ratio of fish to size of body the answer is often far fewer then we want to hear as we love to see all the colors and movement darting around

 

[brokensword]

Two thumbs up But in the same breath if your filter goes down from lack of power then it is how many for the size area before there is too many and the answer is look at any fresh water pond and the ratio of fish to size of body the answer is often far fewer then we want to hear as we love to see all the colors and movement darting around

well, I think unless you're understocked and it's a short power outage and it's not super hot nor is your pond really shallow, you'll have to provide some sort of backup if/when the filter stops working. Backup power is important any time, except for the above where you get more latitude and the fish have a chance to survive until someone does something to fix the problem. I know I have 2 pumps feeding the 'filter', so one goes out, no problem. Now, backup power? I'm working on that. Currently, when we lose power, I have to get home (if out) and start up the gasoline generator and run cords. I hope to have a whole house generator installed this winter, so that should take care of backup power for everything.

 

[addy1]

With just goldfish, deepish pond, maryland temps, water room, lots of plants my pond can be off line for quite a while ie weeks without a issue.

Add koi, heat, overstocking, even just gold fish, all the parameters can change.

All backup plans are pond dependent.

 

[Faebinder]

No filter and no bog? 20 long tails is about right? decent waterfall filter? Maybe another 10. Add a bog? I'd bet long term you can get away with 40 long tails. I'm talking adult sized 7-10 inch long tails.