How Steep Can the Sides of the Pond Be?

[sburtchin]

My 10' x 13' pond is under construction. The viewing area will only be about 8' wide (about half the length of the pond). The planned depth is 32". Taking into account at least one plant shelf, I will need to make the walls pretty steep to allow a significant area at the maximum depth to sit my water lilies. I thought I could use common bricks for the side walls with a 60 deg incline above the plant shelf and a 70 degree incline below the plant shelf. I figure I can find bricks free at a demolition site.

Do you think the sides of the pond will be stable using this material? Can I go even steeper? Would you recommend another material to create near vertical sidewalls if I would want to create room for a second plant shelf.

Alternatively, I could use all stones and boulders instead of bricks for a more natural appearance, but how feasible is it then to achieve my planned 32" depth?

 

[addy1]

Above ground pond or below ground pond?
My below ground pond has some steep sides, but cut out of rock filled clay dirt.

 

[sburtchin]

Below ground with 4" or 6" of clay/sand between the bricks and the liner. The bricks in my pond would be inside the liner if I wasn't clear. The soil here is mostly clay.

My soil has few rocks, so it quickly grades itself out to no steeper than about 45 degrees if not supported by roots or some retaining wall.

 

[Dave 54]

The depth of the pond is dependant to what you wish to keep in it sburtchin and where in the world you live.
If you get harsh winters like many members do , then I would strongly suggest that you go between 4ft - 5ft in depth .
If your going to be keeping koi then definately 4.5ft at the shallowest 4 ft for goldfish is a nice depth .

Dave

 

[dieselplower]

I don't understand why you would put all those bricks in the pond?

 

[sburtchin]

The depth of the pond is dependant to what you wish to keep in it sburtchin and where in the world you live.
If you get harsh winters like many members do , then I would strongly suggest that you go between 4ft - 5ft in depth .
If your going to be keeping koi then definately 4.5ft at the shallowest 4 ft for goldfish is a nice depth .

Dave

I do get harsh winters - uswually -10 deg F, but sometimes -30 deg. With the pump running all winter the ice has not gotten more than 6" thick in my 50 gal kidney pond (about 10 years). I also pile the snow from my patio there to help insulate. I originally planned to go 4 ft but opted for the shallower depth to give me more flat area at the pond bottom to sit plant pots. The depth is not cut in stone yet, but I am hard pressed to go any deeper without near vertical sidewalls. The pond is as wide as I can make it without major relandscaping.

I have abouit half a dozen small koi and many more goldfish. I have read that deep water promotes healthier and larger koi, but here is something of curiosity: I have an aquaittace who has an above ground tub (16" dia by 12" deep) with a gushing well pump that serves as a fountain (the hand-crank type like you see on old farmsteads). He has three koi in there that he purchased small and they are now over 16". Needless to say, I hope to provide a happier home for my fish.

I am open to ideas on how to make the sidewalls more vertical.

I don't understand why you would put all those bricks in the pond?

There are a few reasons: I want to have turtles. I know they like to dig and they have sharp claws. I don't want to have to look at an exposed liner. There are big dogs in the neighborhood with sharp claws. I need steep sidewalls, so the material I choose to cover the liner must not shift or slump. I can get bricks for free. Bricks are easy to stack. Limestone is cheep here, but won't look much nicer. All other kinds of stone are expensive here. Any other suggestions for materials to cover the liner would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Lisaebetten]

If you can't get free fieldstone I think you may want to leave it bare. If you look at @addy1 and @RobAmy pictures and videos you will see their bare liner is covered with a nice natural "pond carpet". Seems like I've read somewhere about Limestone not being a good choice in the pond, look into that one.

I foamed free field stone on my walls only, to hid the liner. I wish I would have dug the center "wintering hole" of the pond wider it is only 4'Lx3W'x3'D and by the time I put the fish(bucket) tunnel and lily's it's full of stuff. Please be sure to secure what ever you use so the wall doesn't tumble onto your fish.

My Pond walls. Oh and I'm new as of this late summer so I'm not expert.

 

[Dave 54]

I do get harsh winters - uswually -10 deg F, but sometimes -30 deg. With the pump running all winter the ice has not gotten more than 6" thick in my 50 gal kidney pond (about 10 years). I also pile the snow from my patio there to help insulate. I originally planned to go 4 ft but opted for the shallower depth to give me more flat area at the pond bottom to sit plant pots. The depth is not cut in stone yet, but I am hard pressed to go any deeper without near vertical sidewalls. The pond is as wide as I can make it without major relandscaping.

I have abouit half a dozen small koi and many more goldfish. I have read that deep water promotes healthier and larger koi, but here is something of curiosity: I have an aquaittace who has an above ground tub (16" dia by 12" deep) with a gushing well pump that serves as a fountain (the hand-crank type like you see on old farmsteads). He has three koi in there that he purchased small and they are now over 16". Needless to say, I hope to provide a happier home for my fish.

I am open to ideas on how to make the sidewalls more vertical.

There are a few reasons: I want to have turtles. I know they like to dig and they have sharp claws. I don't want to have to look at an exposed liner. There are big dogs in the neighborhood with sharp claws. I need steep sidewalls, so the material I choose to cover the liner must not shift or slump. I can get bricks for free. Bricks are easy to stack. Limestone is cheep here, but won't look much nicer. All other kinds of stone are expensive here. Any other suggestions for materials to cover the liner would be greatly appreciated.

We have a free standing welded plastic pond it allows for plenty of insulation around the pond and also allows for the depth needed for koi at 4.5ft the bare minimum for koi never go on what an acquantance goes with as you will invariably have i wrong .
With koi its best to get it right first time around , you've identified issues with sharp claws from both tutles and dogs personally I woulndnt take to kindly to a neighbours dog swimming in my pond so an above ground pond perhaps made from both breezeblock and brick outer wall may be the answer there ..
Which ever option you choose you must remember the depth is the important issue with koi.
Perhaps when your pond is finished bring your aquaintance around to show him the error of their ways ?


Dave

 

[waynefrcan]

I used field stone to stack the side walls a 60-70 degree slope with 1 plant shelf. I also can't stand to look at a bare liner.

So 4-6" of clay/sand in the pond between the brick and liner correct? I think that might be a problem for good water chemistry.

Will the bricks show above the water line? How will that look, won't they be red/yellow if from demolition sites?

 

[sburtchin]

I used field stone to stack the side walls a 60-70 degree slope with 1 plant shelf. I also can't stand to look at a bare liner.

So 4-6" of clay/sand in the pond between the brick and liner correct? I think that might be a problem for good water chemistry.

Will the bricks show above the water line? How will that look, won't they be red/yellow if from demolition sites?

No yellow or other bright colored bricks here, earth tones - yes. I was thinking to use sandstone/fieldstone from 6" or 8" below the waterline on up. Sandstone blocks would be easy to stack if I can find them. The visible parts can be chiseled into more naural looking shapes. I expect that one of the bigger challenges will be to make the shoreline look natural since a real shorline would usually include sand and clay.

When you stacked your fieldstone, did you chisel flat spots or morter them to keep them from tumbling?

Please help with the water quality issue. This is all pretty new to me. "Correct" - I was going to put 4-6" of clay/sand between the bricks and liner to prevent the corners of the bricks from cutting into the liner. I know you have to filter and need bacteria, but how does that sand or clay behind the bricks affect the water chemistry? Wouldn't that be the same as a clay bottom pond?

 

[sburtchin]

Seems like I've read somewhere about Limestone not being a good choice in the pond, look into that one.

I read that too somewhere. Makes sense, I put crushed limestone on my yard to raise the soil pH.

 

[Dave 54]

I read that too somewhere. Makes sense, I put crushed limestone on my yard to raise the soil pH.

My mistake I thought you meant breeze block construction with an outer layer of brick

Dave

 

[Lisaebetten]

I was going to put 4-6" of clay/sand between the bricks and liner to prevent the corners of the bricks from cutting into the liner.

I can't picture this sorry. You are talking of putting clay and sand inside the liner? I am not familiar with this so I can't help there. I would put it all behind the liner if your concerned with the walls collapsing in. I have some bricks on the underside, behind my liner as a support, then covered them with carpet to protect the liner. I even used the skinny cinder blocks under the liner in one of my waterfall attempts with the carpet protection. You could also use carpet padding.

Sorry if I'm not understanding you, others will chime in.

 

[Lisaebetten]

I read that too somewhere. Makes sense, I put crushed limestone on my yard to raise the soil pH.

My ph is very high, like 9! Even with large water changes the ph doesn't change. But it has been that way every day for 3 months now. It is possible it is from the rocked walls and one pond builder in town said it may take a season of 2 to come down because of the rocks. I check my water regularly to make sure it doesn't swing or crash and keep a close eye on ammonia.

 

[waynefrcan]

Sorry I should change that to, my sidewalls are stacked with river rock which is oval and some field stone.

Not a water chem expert either, but we know the less dirt, sand and dead organic material the better.

If your soil is mostly clay then it should hold.

If I was to do another pond I would rock the sidewalls with one plant shelf and have the bottom layers mortared or foamed in place and have it 3 -4 ft deep to avoid the herons. It's not a natural look but is less work to maintain. I then would do just clusters of rock on the bottom for some show and hiding spots for the fish.