How to position an inline mag pump below pond level.

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after losing my mag pump last night because it was sitting next to the pond and the power went out, lost it's prime,
and toasted, i bought a new pump today. a pondmaster hy drive and i prefer to not have it in the pond.
i would prefer no pump vibration in the pond at all if i had my druthers.
i thought one simple thing to do would be to just dig a small trough going away from the pond about 8in below the water line maybe 10 inches wide whatever and around 18 in long. this goes to a pit that the pump sits in. maybe 15-18 in. deep. line it all with epdm. a hose on the intake goes down into the pond. and maybe a check valve for added security.

love some feedback. don't want to lose another pump and don't have a lot of resources.

the drawing is not to scale.

18222491_1364855623594160_4041458792182052125_n.jpg
 
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ur fishes are complaining about the vibration? have it inside pond :D why ur worried about it
how will u join the 2 liners ? u will need to join main liner with this new small liner in order to create this and if u do join both then theres no need for pipe to suck
thats complicated , why dont u create this portion within the pond corner from the main inner it self ? or install a skimmer and place pump in it .
 
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A submerged mag drive pump in good condition won't vibrate and cause a problem.
When they're used incorrectly (plumbed in above the water level) or older ones get air in them, then that's a problem.
 
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A submerged mag drive pump in good condition won't vibrate and cause a problem.
When they're used incorrectly (plumbed in above the water level) or older ones get air in them, then that's a problem.
my last pump was this pondmaster 2400 mag pump recorded within the first week of purchase underwater with a cell phone in a jar. the pump was about 4 feet from the jar. if i floated the jar in the water as opposed to submerge, i could here the pump and feel it on the jar.
 
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my last pump was this pondmaster 2400 mag pump recorded within the first week of purchase underwater with a cell phone in a jar. the pump was about 4 feet from the jar. if i floated the jar in the water as opposed to submerge, i could here the pump and feel it on the jar.

I hear that, but it's normal and not a problem.
Unless, do you have a specific concern?

Luxuries like completely silent running pumps are possible, but luxury comes at a price.;)
Specifically, you'll need to spend the money on an external pump.

.
 
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ur fishes are complaining about the vibration? have it inside pond :D why ur worried about it
how will u join the 2 liners ? u will need to join main liner with this new small liner in order to create this and if u do join both then theres no need for pipe to suck
thats complicated , why dont u create this portion within the pond corner from the main inner it self ? or install a skimmer and place pump in it .

i'm concerned about it because i believe it is not what the fish would prefer. to me that is important because
the preferences of all life is equally important to me.
they do not prefer it because it is not their natural environment and i know how much it would displease me.
i've posted a video of the vibrational effects of a mag pump in the pond. beyond the vibrations recorded, the fact that i could hear and feel the pump if the jar was floating on the surface was most surprising and telling to my mind.

to that end, to baffle the vibrations, one approach would be to have a wall between the pump and the
mass of the pond. there is excess epdm in the corner to lay it there as you say. in that position, there will be somewhat less vibration in the pond, though my musing on the physics of it leeds to me think it wouldn't be as effective as a recessed pump with a baffle. this could all be done at the corner, but i'm feeling a rigid plastic structure would be needed to recess the pump safely and more epdm would likely be needed.

without the flexible down hose, the water is being pumped from the top of the pond. also it adds a security measure
regarding losing prime.i have an effective filter for the hose already.. the check valve would be redundant security redundancy as will be the power outtage alarm i just bought.

digging a small trench and pit off the side of the pond offers little concern about water pressure or sealing. i would use contact cement on the epdm. throughout the water garden, there are many such points of joinery with significant flow and backflow pressures. take the pond liner itself for instance.......uh, maybe we should forget that one...lol.
 
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If you're really concerned about what would help fish the most, then work on providing as diverse an ecosystem as possible.
That would include a substrate, submerged plants, plenty of hiding places, various live foods and plants for them to feed on, marginal plants that attract insects and do what it takes to maintain the highest water quality.
 
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I hear that, but it's normal and not a problem.
Unless, do you have a specific concern?

Luxuries like completely silent running pumps are possible, but luxury comes at a price.;)
Specifically, you'll need to spend the money on an external pump.

.
i guess my specific concern is that it is only normal for artificial ponds with submerged pumps, but is not normal for the fish. so i see it as a problem. i ordered the 3200 gph hy drive pump from pondmaster yesterday. it can run submerged or external. if i run it external, i have only one layer of security, a check valve. which may work fine for the limited power outtages we have, but i want more. one thing i don't have more of is money or i would upgrade to satisfy my concerns with a more traditional external pump.
 

Meyer Jordan

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after losing my mag pump last night because it was sitting next to the pond and the power went out, lost it's prime,
and toasted, i bought a new pump today. a pondmaster hy drive and i prefer to not have it in the pond.
i would prefer no pump vibration in the pond at all if i had my druthers.
i thought one simple thing to do would be to just dig a small trough going away from the pond about 8in below the water line maybe 10 inches wide whatever and around 18 in long. this goes to a pit that the pump sits in. maybe 15-18 in. deep. line it all with epdm. a hose on the intake goes down into the pond. and maybe a check valve for added security.

love some feedback. don't want to lose another pump and don't have a lot of resources.

the drawing is not to scale.

18222491_1364855623594160_4041458792182052125_n.jpg

If your pump is to be submerged as the drawing indicates, a check valve is completely unnecessary as the pump will never lose prime in this configuration.

But if your goal is to completely eliminate any sound from the pump then a separate pit must be provided that is completely detached from the pond much as is done with dedicated Koi ponds. This will entail running the water supply line through the pond liner utilizing a bulkhead fitting otherwise even with a check valve the risk is run of the pump losing prime.because the interior of the check valve will develop a healthy biofilm growth which could easily affect the integrity of the valve seal.
In all of my years I have yet to see a. check valve that maintained its sealing integrity for any substantial length of time.
 

Mmathis

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OK, I'm totally confused...... I guess I'm just not picturing and understanding what you are trying to accomplish and/or why. Vibration from the pump has never been an issue for me, or at least not that I'm aware of, and my fish seem OK and happy.
 
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i'm concerned about it because i believe it is not what the fish would prefer. to me that is important because
the preferences of all life is equally important to me.
they do not prefer it because it is not their natural environment and i know how much it would displease me.
i've posted a video of the vibrational effects of a mag pump in the pond. beyond the vibrations recorded, the fact that i could hear and feel the pump if the jar was floating on the surface was most surprising and telling to my mind.

to that end, to baffle the vibrations, one approach would be to have a wall between the pump and the
mass of the pond. there is excess epdm in the corner to lay it there as you say. in that position, there will be somewhat less vibration in the pond, though my musing on the physics of it leeds to me think it wouldn't be as effective as a recessed pump with a baffle. this could all be done at the corner, but i'm feeling a rigid plastic structure would be needed to recess the pump safely and more epdm would likely be needed.

without the flexible down hose, the water is being pumped from the top of the pond. also it adds a security measure
regarding losing prime.i have an effective filter for the hose already.. the check valve would be redundant security redundancy as will be the power outtage alarm i just bought.

digging a small trench and pit off the side of the pond offers little concern about water pressure or sealing. i would use contact cement on the epdm. throughout the water garden, there are many such points of joinery with significant flow and backflow pressures. take the pond liner itself for instance.......uh, maybe we should forget that one...lol.
i love ur intention to provide them natural peaceful environment , i want same in my ability $ resources , u can correct me if im wrong from ur research but i personally think , we some times compare animals with our living preferences which is not right , many things animals like and in nature they live in it but we dislike viceversa

i will give u example , most of the animals love dirt on ground and they get sick or injured if raised on solid floor but when we think from our perspective we try to provide them solid clean floor bcz we cant maintain otherwise

parrots and some animals take silence as threat and they get stressed , actually somebecome silent to indicate danger to others , i read parot budgies dislike total silence , they prefer noise among eachother and in environment , thats why parots look happier in living room among human and TV instead of silent separate room . possibly fishes like sound of splashes , humming , bubbling , flow and it keeps them active instead of super peaceful silent pond they may get lethargic

same goes for fishes , the natural most suitable environment for them is algae with murky water with mud on floor which provides them food and minerals ecosystem but we cant provide them bcz we want to view them and want clear water & cant maintain water quality otherwise . in big koi farms they raise koi in mudponds for fast and healthy growth .

fishes live in streams ,waterfalls under rain etc which has far greater vibration and sound then the pump we use even in our ponds if u measure turbulence vibration and the sound under the waterfall it will read alot more then the pump . can be some pumps are more noisy but i dont think fishes will even notice or b bothered by it or take it as alien ,if its consistent they may take it as running water turbulence/vibration. if they are really bothered they will show sighs of stress behave different inactive or scared , if they r active , eating , spawning etc that means they feel safe , u know goldfishes dont usually spawn in aquariums or in some ponds where they dont feel safe .

yes excessive sound can bother us . as far as i know , that sound is only of water circulating by propeller . may b u can place pump in a thick paint bucket or container with few holes that wud give additional barrier .
 
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Mmathis

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@Usman

anthropomorphism definition. (an-thruh-puh-mawr-fiz-uhm) The attributing of human characteristics and purposes to inanimate objects, animals, plants, or other natural phenomena, or to God.
 
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hey folks. sorry for the late addition.
i've really enjoyed this thread.

i received the new pump. it is a pondmaster hy-drive.
regarding ambient vibration from the pump, the hy-drive is as they say, whisper quiet.
i can barely hear it even if it is not submerged.
my last pump was a pondmaster mag pump. it was loud.
my first pump was a sump pump...lol
i am far more comfortable putting a hy-drive in the pond.
and it has a well designed case with a handle to hang it from. easy and secure.

there seems no doubt that many types of fish flourish in ponds
filled with the vibrations and emanations of an electrical pumping device. from quiet to louder.
my concern was with the un-natural effects of a loud electrical motor in the pond.
for me, this has little do with species and more to do with the natural existance of life.
and respect. i got a giggle about the anthropomorhism idea.
human's share many characteristics with other animals due to our shared source
and the nature of life. the definition implies other animals are something seperate in nature (double entendre').
i think not.
 

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