how to prevent foam occuring?

[pugle1]

OK.. that's all as clear a foam...lol.... Kidding.
Thanks for the insight folks. My phoam - foam probem cleared up shortly after my plants started growing, and even more when I added some more plants. That's sort of why I was asking what I did. I just wondered if the foam cleared up on its own for natural reasons or because of something I did. I don't have a phoam phractionator on my set up, as early spring seemed to be when I had the biggest occurrence of it, and as I said, it did dissipate and eventually went away on its own. At least I now know the cause, and some possible solutions.

Thanks

 

[crsublette]

If ya want to believe plants were the catalyst, then my best guess is the plants brought bacteria that helped to consume the excess dissolved organics or the foam bound itself to the plants. For follow up, when the next time foam appears with current plant load, the question then becomes "should I add even more plants" or look into what is really happening.

Foam is the visual. Once excess dissolved organics appear, then you notice the foam. As long as there is decomposition, there will always be dissolved organics.

Example: Pea green water is the visual for excess planktonic algae. Planktonic algae always exist at some degree, unless there's effective, continuous UV usage.

 

[Waterbug]

Foam does come and go on it's own. Adding the plants can effect it by adding more suspended particles which can bind with DOC particles due to many factors including electrical charges. It wouldn't be the plants themselves or even bacteria. Adding plants to a pond greatly increases the organic load depending on soil. So while you don't see foam the DOC level is still there. The appearance of foam is not directly related to a specific DOC level, but instead many factors.

 

[crsublette]

Oh yeah, plant agglutinins. completely forgot about this, mentioned in a doc johnson video. Mentions that plants excrete a type of protien from their roots that roughly acts like a type of flocculent causing particulates to coagulate and slowly sink.

I would think potential plant decay could negate the extra agglutinins, unless another variable present to manage the care of the plant to reduce potential plant decay.

The appearance of foam is not directly related to a specific DOC level, but instead many factors.

I would suppose, when the ecosystem is inadequate, the foam is only formed in reaction to the excess. Ya just don't all of a sudden have a proper ecosystem to manage volatility. Nature is not this fast. This is why we add chemicals, fancy mechanisms, plants, water changes, etc. When the ecosystem builds up proper control variables, then the foam eventually dissipates. If these control variables were overcome or removed one way or another, then the foam builds up again.

 

[sissy]

I have never heard of foam or seen it until on this sight .

 

[don't ask]

weird when i see it on my pond surface... Sissy, i guess you know foam at least in my experience are bubbles from waterfalls i think primarily that don't pop..they group together and form small masses of bubbles on surface...(at least that is what i think foam is) before i redid my pond i had dual waterfalls and decided to switch to a single coming down the center, for some reason(perhaps better agitation or something) i don't see it happen often and when i do i check my skimmer.. sometimes floating plants block the intake and i get foam, if it's cleared i see maybe a trace of foam starting where it enters the pond from the falls..yes weird..also if i were to bypass my falls and run a flex hose directly to pond and have it empty maybe a foot or two above the surface i don't get foam either

 

[pugle1]

That's the thing though .... I know I have decayed plant matter in my water, as I have sumac trees growing around the header pond for the water fall. Sumac has compound leaves, so it just drops the whole stem with all the leaflets attached. I do my best to keep them cleaned up as they fall, especially in autumn, but I know I never get all of them. Some manage to escape my attention I'm sure, and sink to the bottom. Too, the sumac are in "flowering mode" right now, so many of those tiny flower buds fall into the water as well.

So... this flocculent action I guess is what leads to what we know as pond scum? That's the DOC joining onto larger particles that then sink?

My water appears to be crystal clear until you shine a flashlight into it at night.... you can see the "hazy beam" cutting through the water. This haziness in the beam of the light is the DOC / DOM I'm assuming, and maybe some slightly larger suspended particles as well? If you look in my photo gallery at the earlier photos, you can clearly see the foam, but in the later ones, there is little or no foaming. This is what made me "guess" the added plants may have helped a bit.

Keep the info coming... this is interesting stuff.

 

[crsublette]

So... this flocculent action I guess is what leads to what we know as pond scum? That's the DOC joining onto larger particles that then sink?

I'm guessing it's one variable.

My water appears to be crystal clear until you shine a flashlight into it at night.... you can see the "hazy beam" cutting through the water. This haziness in the beam of the light is the DOC / DOM I'm assuming, and maybe some slightly larger suspended particles as well? If you look in my photo gallery at the earlier photos, you can clearly see the foam, but in the later ones, there is little or no foaming. This is what made me "guess" the added plants may have helped a bit.

Yep. In full sun ya think everything is clear and dandy since I think the sun's beams tend to penetrate through the dissolved organics, I am guessing, giving the appearance of it not being there.

Nice pictures!

Crazy amount of foam there in the beginning. Yeah, last one there I see a little foaming, but it is getting better. Either the plant aglutinins causing it to sink or bubbles just clinging to the plants. Almost kind of looks like mine; has just a tiny bit of foam floating a few inches away from the waterfall, bubbles really small clinging to my plants and don't tend to pop.

I'm gonna try to build a mini-phraxionator; using MuckyWater previous post here as a guideline. Also, that Ethan guy, in Muckywater's thread there, mentions that foam comes and goes during particular time of day and the water hardness may have an effect on foam forming.

 

[Waterbug]

My water appears to be crystal clear until you shine a flashlight into it at night.... you can see the "hazy beam" cutting through the water. This haziness in the beam of the light is the DOC / DOM I'm assuming, and maybe some slightly larger suspended particles as well?

I would say suspended particles. DOC particles are about 1/2 the size of most bacteria. I think it would be difficult to have a high enough DOC to affect clarity. However this all goes back to size. Suspended particles and DOCs are the same things, just different sizes.

 

[pugle1]

Thanks guys,

At least I have a better understanding of what the foam actually is, and the likely causes and potential treatments.

Cheers!