How to stop the carnage? :(

[addy1]

Fry in wetlands filters is not that uncommon, but most of the time they are not seen. Fertilized eggs are transported to the filter by the pump where they hatch.

Well that little egg would have needed to work its way up through 2.5 feet of pea gravel to survive. Anything is possible.

birds, frog legs and everything else can carry eggs .Even nets when you net the pond .

That is true to. Probably the frogs did it! I seldom net the pond.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Well that little egg would have needed to work its way up through 2.5 feet of pea gravel to survive. Anything is possible.

That is true to. Probably the frogs did it! I seldom net the pond.

Sorry. I should have clarified that statement to refer to wetlands filters that are constructed using matrix cubes. I have had to rescue young Koi that hatched and grew for the better part of a year in total darkness below the gravel layer of a wetland filter. I have no idea how many had died.

 

[addy1]

lol no biggy! my wetlands filter is more of a loaded up with plants pea gravel filter. I am sure fish eggs end up in the pipes and tads and who knows what else. I hope not too much. I have a good leaf basket on the pump, but eggs and tiny tads can make it right through it.

 

[MitchM]

Interesting problem.
...
One thing I see though is it looks your skimmer may not have a basket? ...

Interestingly I have never found any fish, frogs or turtles, etc in my skimmer basket in my new pond, either alive or dead. I can't explain why, but perhaps it is because I'm only sucking somewhere between 1,000 to 1,200 gph through it compared to your 4,200 GPH?

There is a wire frame with a mesh net for a basket. The mesh is fairly small, maybe 1/4" holes. Larger animals shouldn't be able to get through to the pump, but obviously they do.
Last year I had a different external pump that put through about 1600 gph and I only suffered a few losses. Obviously a stronger current will trap more animals.

Mitch;

couldn't you just use the natural plantings (as you've stated exist in your local natal pond) within the context of an up flow wetlands filter? I don't have your water temps but that's all I use; bog and plantings. I do have a water fall and aeration as well. Plus, I know most think my pond is overstocked (about 100 6+ inches of goldfish) in 2700 gallons but it's been working fine so far. Hard to believe you couldn't get by with natural plantings even around the edges ala your natural pond example.

Michael

I'm trying to think of a way to take native plants and work them into this pond. The native plants are living in a thick clay base. I was thinking maybe I could construct a border wall on the inside edge of my pond and fill that with clay and then transfer some native plants to that space. I made the plant shelves pretty wide- 3 or 4 feet wide. The problem I see with doing that is that when winter comes, the ice may form and push the rock border over the edge and into the bottom of the pond.

Did you try those plants I recommended a while back Mitch? I have some stuff that freezes solid in the front yard pond that always comes back. Maybe your local moose are eating your plants ? ..

I did find a few of the plants you mentioned, but some were invasive and not available. Right now my iris's are 2 or 3 inches tall while I see yours are 2 or 3 feet tall. Again, the cold water seems to preclude me from plants making up a significant part of the pond filtration system.

 

[cas]

Right now my iris's are 2 or 3 inches tall while I see yours are 2 or 3 feet tall.

Mitch, I am in a warmer zone that you and my irises are only maybe 6" tall. I have no idea how Colleen's get so big so fast!

 

[MitchM]

Mitch, I am in a warmer zone that you and my irises are only maybe 6" tall. I have no idea how Colleen's get so big so fast!

I think water temperature has just as much to do with plant growth as nutrient availability.
What is your water temperature at?
Mine is at 44F this morning.

If you look at Colleen's pond location, it's pretty well protected from the wind and is surrounded by buildings that will radiate heat.

 

[cas]

Yesterday the water was 66 degrees F. My yellow flag isn't as old or as established as Colleen's and I know that has something to do with it, but really? Hers are huge.

 

[brokensword]

Mitch; I guess what I'm saying is if you have a natural pond near you, is it completely plantless (IN the pond)? I'd use whatever is growing in and near so as to approximate your natural pond, including putting the edge plants in pots/planters/crates and setting them inside your own.



"I'm trying to think of a way to take native plants and work them into this pond. The native plants are living in a thick clay base. I was thinking maybe I could construct a border wall on the inside edge of my pond and fill that with clay and then transfer some native plants to that space. I made the plant shelves pretty wide- 3 or 4 feet wide. The problem I see with doing that is that when winter comes, the ice may form and push the rock border over the edge and into the bottom of the pond."

 

[Mucky_Waters]

There is a wire frame with a mesh net for a basket. The mesh is fairly small, maybe 1/4" holes. Larger animals shouldn't be able to get through to the pump, but obviously they do.

First thing I'd be doing is trying to figure out how and why they are getting past that basket???

 

[MitchM]

First thing I'd be doing is trying to figure out how and why they are getting past that basket???

It would be pretty easy for a frog to climb the mesh and get over into the pump area. Especially if it gets startled when I lift the lid.
The net isn't exactly a tight seal to the plastic skimmer housing, so larger fish could also get through under or beside the frame into the pump area.

 

[MitchM]

Mitch; I guess what I'm saying is if you have a natural pond near you, is it completely plantless (IN the pond)? I'd use whatever is growing in and near so as to approximate your natural pond, including putting the edge plants in pots/planters/crates and setting them inside your own.



"I'm trying to think of a way to take native plants and work them into this pond. The native plants are living in a thick clay base. I was thinking maybe I could construct a border wall on the inside edge of my pond and fill that with clay and then transfer some native plants to that space. I made the plant shelves pretty wide- 3 or 4 feet wide. The problem I see with doing that is that when winter comes, the ice may form and push the rock border over the edge and into the bottom of the pond."

I'm coming to the conclusion that's what I'll do.
I'll try using some flat rocks so they won't roll off the edge of the plant ledge, then see what I can do to keep native plants on the shelves.

.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

It would be pretty easy for a frog to climb the mesh and get over into the pump area. Especially if it gets startled when I lift the lid.
The net isn't exactly a tight seal to the plastic skimmer housing, so larger fish could also get through under or beside the frame into the pump area.

I'm not familiar with your particular skimmer, but there are skimmer designs where it is impossible to bypass the basket. Could you modify your basket or build a better fitting one to prevent that from happening? Perhaps some sort of polyethylene foam cut to fit between the basket and the lid and sides???
I'm just spit-balling here, but it might be easier (and cheaper) to modify the design inefficiencies in your existing skimmer then buying and installing a new one or redesigning your whole system.

Edit: I see RobAmy has already suggested a modification. His design looks good.

 

[morewater]

You don't need an absolute torrent running through a skimmer, just enough to draw the floating stuff into the collector.

 

[morewater]

I'm not familiar with your particular skimmer, but there are skimmer designs where it is impossible to bypass the basket. Could you modify your basket or build a better fitting one to prevent that from happening? Perhaps some sort of polyethylene foam cut to fit between the basket and the lid and sides???
I'm just spit-balling here, but it might be easier (and cheaper) to modify the design inefficiencies in your existing skimmer then buying and installing a new one or redesigning your whole system.

Edit: I see RobAmy has already suggested a modification. His design looks good.

Black pipe insulation is great stuff, it's already split.

 

[MitchM]

I'll continue the plant discussion and collection process here:https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/pond-in-the-foothills.10656/

I had a closer look at the fit of the basket, and it only seems to be an issue on the lower corners, maybe a 3/4 inch gap at the lower corners.
I think what I'm going to do is use a lower flow pump, either internal or external. I didn't have much of an issue when I used an external pump with this intake adapter that I built: