I feel like Im going in the wrong direction.....

[anthony21078]

So as the title says, I feel like Im going in the wrong direction but I really dont know. As a person completely new to ponds, I planned this pond to be roughly 11'x8' with a max depth of 30'. I was intrigued by those youtube videos by the "ThePondDigger" and really liked his designs with the multiple tiers all while lining the walls with rocks/boulders. As you can see from the picture, I pretty much have the pond dug out with the exception of the very bottom indicated by the 6" mark. As I began to get deeper (roughly 24") it appears that the dirt has turned to sand and is extremely loose. The lowest tier is very brittle and if I stand near the edge of the tier it will likely collapse. The first tier is solid and compact on top but once you get near the very bottom it becomes brittle right before the last tier.

After reading a few posts about lining the walls with rocks vs plain liner walls, I cant decide what I would like to do at this point. Especially since the lower I go the softer the ground is and Im not sure if it can support those large builders at the deepest sections leaning against the walls. My goal is to have a goldfish pond with plants. I already purchased the 15x20 liner, underlayment, skimmer, waterfall, pumps, tubing, filters etc. I have not purchased any rocks at this point and Im not even sure what it would cost for that material.Honestly, I have no idea what rocks cost. If its going to cost more then 500$ to line the entire inside of the pond with rocks then Ill probably pass. I also have to purchase rocks for the waterfall area.

Also, as I stare at the waterfall area I feel overwhelmed in trying to get this right. I think I have decided to have the waterfall just cascade directly into the pond from a height of about 14 inches. I loved the idea of the water trickling down along a few tiers and then falling a few inches into the pond but I dont believe I have the eye to do it correctly. Any tips/advice would really help

So I guess what Im asking are these questions....
1)Will this loose sand at the base of the pond be a problem if I choose to use rocks along the entire interior all the way to the top?
2)If the sand is a problem for rocks and I can not use the rocks, how should I restructure the pond to allow for liner only? Is it best to have the pond drop straight down to the max depth following the first shelf? OR, should I eliminate the lowest shelf, start hacking away at the first shelf to create a bowl type effect around the entire inside so it slopes to the bottom?
3)Do you see any potential problems with anything Im doing in the picture? Im also afraid of having rain runoff from around the waterfall sides. Im trying my best to reshape the area

 

[addy1]

Welcome to our group!

I didn't do rocks in this pond, did have them in a different pond, not totally lined but I did have rocks. This pond no rocks.

If your pond was mine, I would remove the lower shelf. Keep the first shelf. Dig a shallow shelf around the upper edge to put rocks on that will be part in the water part out to hide the liner edge. I would also put some of the excess dirt around the edge of the pond so it is higher than the rest of the land. Therefore no run off into the pond.

I would skip rocks they take up a lot of water room. Over the time the liner looks just fine as algae grows on it.

The water fall area, make sure it is part of the main liner, helps a lot with any potential water fall leaks.

Just my opinions others will have other opinions. lol

 

[longhair]

X2 on removing the bottom shelf. And I wouldn't make the top as wide. Don't want to give predators a place to sit and get you're fish. With the liner you have I would go a little deeper but you didn't say your location. At least 36" unless your winters are mild. And speaking for experience the more water the better. The first ponds I built were rock filled and I would never do it again. So hard to keep clean and I was always having problems ( sick fish and algae blooms). Some people like rocks in a pond just not me too much work. I would put them around the top but not in the whole pond. And If you don't use rocks the sandy bottom will be fine.

 

[longhair]

Check out the rock around the edge of the pond in this thread. And there is a drawing in it too.

Another new home owner!

Hi all, purchased a home a month ago and my entire backyard is one big pond. It's beautiful, with a cute wooden bridge and a large waterfall, but it had been neglected for a few years as the home had been a rental. Barely any water was visible because of an overgrown plant that had taken over...

www.gardenpondforum.com

 

[KDubU]

I built my pond this summer and went with stones similar to how the Pond Digger does it. I also hummed and hawed over going with or without for a while. Then decided to just do it and am glad I did, hopefully that will be case in a year or so. Stones are expensive unless you can find some being given away which there always seems to be on Craigslist however you need to pick them up and transport, that is the hard job. You could also go with rip-rap that up here in Maine seems to be stone that has been blasted out of ledge but it tends to have sharp corners and a lot of iron in it but must less expensive. I spent the money on nicer stones and yes it was expensive but that was the look I wanted. You can go either way as I have seen pics of those who only have stones at the top of their ponds and they look really nice.

 

[j.w]

No rocks in my pond except around the top and on a small step down from there to hide the liner as in that thread @longhair posted about above. Also check out the drawing too that @addy1 posted in that same thread. I do have a plant shelf down about 18" from the top. My sides down are all pretty straight, just a slight angle. Did have to put a short fence and a wide weave net over my pond to keep heron and raccoons out. Small birds can still fly in for a drink. My pond is about 3&1/2' deep, 15' long and about 8' wide.

 

[anthony21078]

Taking the advice from the everyone's posts I'm going to proceed as follows...

1)goodbye bottom shelf
2) As addy said "Dig a shallow shelf around the upper edge to put rocks on that will be part in the water part out to hide the liner edge. I would also put some of the excess dirt around the edge of the pond so it is higher than the rest of the land. "....I really like that idea.
3)Not going to line the entire interior with rocks but rather just the first shelf like mentioned above

I'm located in Long Island and I have read that 30" for a depth is fine. But Ill likely go down to 36". I definitely want the liner to be completely hidden around the top perimeter and the picture J.W posted is a great example. That little sketch that addy did is actually quite informative and explains what to do as well.

Now, as far as the first shelf is concerned.....I can certainly trim it back to reduce the width. Since that shelf will be used to secure the rocks that protrude into the water line and to hold plants, do I really want excess surface area on that shelf that just sits there? Im guess what Im trying to say is..., does it look funny when looking straight down into the pond and you see almost like a black step with nothing on it dropping right to the bottom?

Ive also been reading a lot about bog filters and Im trying to convince myself to build one in the left corner. I was going to use 2 tetra flat box filters in the bottom of the pond for filtration but the bog seems the way to go. Im sure the flat box filters will do the job but bogs seem extremely popular. With a 11x8x3 foot pond with goldfish, will a 4x3x1 foot bog be adequate? Can someone link me a DIY bog building thread/instructions please?

 

[addy1]

Can someone link me a DIY bog building thread/instructions please?

Here you go.

Bog building, also called upflow filter, eco filter, wetland filter

I was asked to start a thread on how to build a bog. This is my rendition on bog building 101............. Building a bog: Before you decide to build a bog, you need to know what you want its primary purpose to be. Total pond filtration bog filtration combined with another filter. If you...

www.gardenpondforum.com

With a 11x8x3 foot pond with goldfish, will a 4x3x1 foot bog be adequate?

I should work well, my one small pond has a tiny bog that helps, my linked together 6 ponds get well filtered with just my bog running. I have no other filters running.

 

[addy1]

do I really want excess surface area on that shelf that just sits there?

Make the shelf to the size you think you need to hold plants, if it is real wide skinny it down, more water room for your fish.

 

[poconojoe]

The shallow shelf for layers of flat rocks is what I have also done. It works great to hide the top part of the liner and create a natural transition from the ground to the water.
If you end up with extra liner, dont cut any off, just fold it under the rocks. You never know, you might need it some day.
When your pond matures, it will accumulate a layer of beneficial algae over most of the liner. You want this algae and it acts as part of the filtration. The point is that your liner won't really be that noticable.

 

[longhair]

Taking the advice from the everyone's posts I'm going to proceed as follows...

1)goodbye bottom shelf
2) As addy said "Dig a shallow shelf around the upper edge to put rocks on that will be part in the water part out to hide the liner edge. I would also put some of the excess dirt around the edge of the pond so it is higher than the rest of the land. "....I really like that idea.
3)Not going to line the entire interior with rocks but rather just the first shelf like mentioned above

I'm located in Long Island and I have read that 30" for a depth is fine. But Ill likely go down to 36". I definitely want the liner to be completely hidden around the top perimeter and the picture J.W posted is a great example. That little sketch that addy did is actually quite informative and explains what to do as well.

Now, as far as the first shelf is concerned.....I can certainly trim it back to reduce the width. Since that shelf will be used to secure the rocks that protrude into the water line and to hold plants, do I really want excess surface area on that shelf that just sits there? Im guess what Im trying to say is..., does it look funny when looking straight down into the pond and you see almost like a black step with nothing on it dropping right to the bottom?

Ive also been reading a lot about bog filters and Im trying to convince myself to build one in the left corner. I was going to use 2 tetra flat box filters in the bottom of the pond for filtration but the bog seems the way to go. Im sure the flat box filters will do the job but bogs seem extremely popular. With a 11x8x3 foot pond with goldfish, will a 4x3x1 foot bog be adequate? Can someone link me a DIY bog building thread/instructions please?

Do a bog! I have 50 koi and I am using a bog filter no problems in 3 years! You can check out my new bog build!

Help me design my pond

I have been reading here for awhile. I am going to build a new pond.Have several koi I rescued in a 350 gallon preformed pond.I need a bigger pond. I have decided on a 12x14 4 foot deep liner pond. Can I do a bog filter and it be ok? Do I need a bottom drain and a skimmer? Please help me with a...

www.gardenpondforum.com

 

[GBBUDD]

Welcome to our group!

I didn't do rocks in this pond, did have them in a different pond, not totally lined but I did have rocks. This pond no rocks.

If your pond was mine, I would remove the lower shelf. Keep the first shelf. Dig a shallow shelf around the upper edge to put rocks on that will be part in the water part out to hide the liner edge. I would also put some of the excess dirt around the edge of the pond so it is higher than the rest of the land. Therefore no run off into the pond.

I would skip rocks they take up a lot of water room. Over the time the liner looks just fine as algae grows on it.

The water fall area, make sure it is part of the main liner, helps a lot with any potential water fall leaks.

Just my opinions others will have other opinions. lol

I AGREE with addy that liner in time will be hard to tell that you are looking at the liner. But for me the look of rock Boulders down to gravel and looking natural just cant be beat .
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[GBBUDD]

I built my pond this summer and went with stones similar to how the Pond Digger does it. I also hummed and hawed over going with or without for a while. Then decided to just do it and am glad I did, hopefully that will be case in a year or so. Stones are expensive unless you can find some being given away which there always seems to be on Craigslist however you need to pick them up and transport, that is the hard job. You could also go with rip-rap that up here in Maine seems to be stone that has been blasted out of ledge but it tends to have sharp corners and a lot of iron in it but must less expensive. I spent the money on nicer stones and yes it was expensive but that was the look I wanted. You can go either way as I have seen pics of those who only have stones at the top of their ponds and they look really nice.

hows the pond looking kd you were close to adding water the last i saw

 

[GBBUDD]

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Anthony don't let that little bit of sand scare you . use it to your advantage and not a minus. You have the soils i could have only dreamed of having. If you are planning on no rock i would knock down the edges of your drops and make them slopes not straight drops. and in doing so i would dig out a good pile of your sand and then knock down the sides and compact the soils and then cover with the sand. sand is IDEAL to have as a base before placing underlayment and liner. But it must be compacted i simple home depot 12x12 plate and a wood handle is all you need they sell them. Now as addy said if you plan on rocking the pond i would change up some of your lines make some jogs inward to break up the perfect oval because once you start rocking it will look like a string of pearls. but if you do if you can get rocks that are 2 to 6" taller then your shelves this can hold back your base rock 3/4 " but in doing so once you place a boulder the best is to lift the liner and back fill with SAND pushing the liner up tight to the rock. this will remove cavities leaves to gather etc but also places to get a foot stuck. i opted not to as my boulders are quite large and i wanted the cavities for the fish to swim in and out off. " careful what you wish for a can't catch my fish to save my life as mentioned above plus two big fish caves and threes little chance" With the size of your pond id lean toward stone at the surface and maybe a couple choice boulders to make it look realistic Placed here and there and I would also cut into a shelf and make your fish cave. A must for the safety of the fish and also a place to get out of the sun.

 

[KDubU]

Something I forgot to add in my response is I have sand for soil mostly and I packed it down hard. This way there will be no movement underneath the liner.

Yes to a bog! I put one in and it is excellent, best decision so far.