Identifying color/scale names of fish...

Discussion in 'Garden Pond Talk' started by capewind, Aug 17, 2012.

  1. capewind

    capewind

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    I noticed a few times now that people dont know the names (color or pattern) of their fish, including me. I think I get it figured out, then figure out, nope, I didn't. I have a bunch of pics in my computer, especially some of the fish I got off of ebay, so am going to post a bunch. As I get them uploaded (to Photobucket), I'll keep editing this post to add more.

    It would be great if responders would let me copy the responses to each fish that gets identified, including anything that may be right or wrong with the fish. I wont be offended in the least if someone wants to outright say one is the ugliest fish on the face of the planet! My feelings will NOT be hurt. I bought them cuz I thought they were pretty, not because I am looking to breed the next half a million dollar show fish:)

    Fish #1
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    Fish 2
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    Fish 3
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    Fish 4
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    Fish 5
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    Fish 6
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    Fish 7
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    Fish 8
    [​IMG]

    Fish 9
    [​IMG]

    Fish 10
    [​IMG]

    Fish 11
    [​IMG]

    Fish 12
    [​IMG]
     
    capewind, Aug 17, 2012
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  2. capewind

    ididntdoit99 ididntdoit99

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    I don't know their names either, but that is one cool looking fish!
     
    ididntdoit99, Aug 17, 2012
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  3. capewind

    capewind

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    Thanks I didnt... It was even prettier in person (14" fish)... Unfortunately he was able to commit suicide a couple of days after getting him (the net wasnt secured good enough). Whether its coloring was right or wrong, I want another like it.
     
    capewind, Aug 17, 2012
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  4. capewind

    ididntdoit99 ididntdoit99

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    Oh wow, you added more, too bad about that first one. Do you still have all of the others?

    I have a pure white platinum looking one like #7, but mine is not a butterfly. I do think he is getting a little black as he gets bigger though.

    I love a lot of those! All of my koi are petsmart cheapies, never brought myself to buy quality koi online. I have found a couple of nice ones there though if your search on the right days.
     
    ididntdoit99, Aug 17, 2012
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  5. capewind

    capewind

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    Still have the rest, plus a lot more. It will sound dumb, but I like all of the fish to look different so I can identify them. Hubby thinks I am wacked. I am able tell with just a glance when I am feeding, who is "missing"... aka save some food for the late arrivals LOL. Have a lot more to upload ... hoping someone wants to play name that fish for all us dummies LOL.
     
    capewind, Aug 17, 2012
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  6. capewind

    fishin4cars True friends just call me Larkin Moderator

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    Kind of late this evening, I can name some with a pretty good bit of certainty. some are easy some will take a little research. I'll start this evening with the ones I know and then edit as I think I can. Some are not going to be easy at all for me either. You have some VERY unusual one's in that mix. BTW, all very pretty! I would have a very hard time ranking the ones posted from #1-12. But after looking several times I would say #2 and 6 tie for first and #11 would be my least. And honestly it's prettier than several in my collection!
    1-
    2-Hana Sushui
    3-Shusui
    4-Kin Ki Doitsu Matsuba ( another fish that could take a different name due to the metallic and doitsu scale pattern)
    5-Gin Rin Ki showa
    6-Yamabuki (The mettalic shene may cause this name to differ)
    7-Platinum Ogon
    8-
    9-
    10-Gin Rin Kindal Showa (This is a realtively new color) Kindal means that at least 40% of the body is white)
    11-Gin Rin Ki Showa
    12-Shusui
     
    fishin4cars, Aug 18, 2012
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  7. capewind

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    Those are beautiful fish you picked out! great job
     
    addy1, Aug 18, 2012
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  8. capewind

    capewind

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    Thank you for the compliments... I thought they were pretty and/or different from some we already had. It IS okay to say if the patterns or colors are BAD, my feelings will NOT be hurt. I started this thread for the educational value. One of the things I am personally trying to get straight in my head is WHY some are called one thing, and what to me would look to be the same thing, is NOT always...

    Since I bought ALL of these fish from ebay, will edit above to add the names they were listed with (need to dig back through the auctions, so will take a bit), and try to get a few more pics up as well. If others give different names to them, will add that too... and then maybe we can come back to the ones with multi names to see if either it was misnamed, or why it would be this other name.
     
    capewind, Aug 18, 2012
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  9. capewind

    capewind

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    well THAT isnt going to work... I cant edit my original post anyone:-(
     
    capewind, Aug 18, 2012
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  10. capewind

    leet13

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    Wow... all are beautiful! They came from Ebay?! wow again! :) You know I cannot help with ID... maybe someday I can lol
     
    leet13, Aug 18, 2012
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  11. capewind

    capewind

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    Thanks Leet. I know most of these, but was hoping to do an educational thread to better understand the names. Figured I cant be the only person who cant keep some of the names straight.

    I think we have bought about 25 fish off of ebay this year. We dont have many local options for fish. We've gotten some via craigslist and even Petsmart, but this year anyways, out Petsmart hasnt had much, if ANY at all.
     
    capewind, Aug 18, 2012
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  12. capewind

    leet13

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    I was looking at ones for sale online and then trying to match names but they could be wrong too? Wow thats a lot of fish! Did you get them from the same seller on Ebay?
     
    leet13, Aug 18, 2012
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  13. capewind

    fishin4cars True friends just call me Larkin Moderator

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    Ebay dealers do make mistakes, but for the most part are usually pretty close. The problem with naming some of Capewinds is they are butterfly koi. butterfly koi have genes that have not been developed in standard koi. The names come from Japanese culture so if a color or look appears many will name it a common name instead of a name that the Japanese culture would use. Second problem is that there are clasifications for standard koi as they must meet certain criteria to be shown. Butterfly koi have not been breed for such specific traits so new strains are constantly being produced. Third is the overlapping between colors and types. Such as showa and Sanke. Some are very easy to tell the difference, some are REALLY hard. Even Judges have problems seperating the two in specific cases. With new colors and types being developed it will always be a challenge to learn all the different types. I must admire judges as they not only have to know each type but then have to look at all the fine details of each fish to make a descision of which one is best.
     
    fishin4cars, Aug 18, 2012
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  14. capewind

    capewind

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    I can post standard koi as well, but was only referring to color and scale patterns and not structure. Had most of these pics in the pc... Whether butterfly or standard, I would think a shusui would be the same in both? What defines a Shusui from a Hana Shusui from a High Hana Shusui? I already know this one, but it was the first "color" that came to mind, that we have in both standard fin and butterfly...
     
    capewind, Aug 18, 2012
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  15. capewind

    fishin4cars True friends just call me Larkin Moderator

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    Koi 1 and 9, where do they fall? You first have to look at skin color, both of these are quite different than any standard in almost any chart. These are the ones that get almost every one confused. Sushui is Sushui always Doitsu, always has a zipper pattern. Hana is a full red, Hi Hana is a RED RED? kichibeni Hi sushui. That's a red lipped Primarily red sushui. If you think they have a degree of difficulty there is a breeder here in the states that is working on developing a Ki Sushui. A yellow sushui. Now what will it be if it has all yellow, a Midgori? well it could, as that is the original grandparents. She has to be careful to develope a sushui that holds it's yellow, but has the distinctive patterns of a Sushui. Standard Koi are worked with in much more detail than butterfly. The examples of 1 and 9 aren't fish that were developed to have that paticular look. So it's harder to place a name as it's a very pretty one or two or even possibly a few examples of a single spawning. These kind of examples of butterfly koi will get the true show koi keepers into debate if the Butterfly Koi is a Koi or not.
    I would like to see other join in on this as well. There are other names of fish that get used. But other must particpate and name and show fish or question.
    What would this fish be called? Then hopefully Mark can post a pic of his similar fish and what he calls it. The see how they compare. I say this is a Hi Bekko.
     

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    fishin4cars, Aug 19, 2012
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  16. capewind

    ididntdoit99 ididntdoit99

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    That is exactlt what i have done in my pond too! I try not to have repeats. I was actually given 2 koi a few weeks ago (hadnt seen them ahead of time, just told the guy i could rehome them) and one of them was almost all white, since i already had a platinum ogan in the pond already, i was albl to find that one a new home with some people who were just starting thier pond.
     
    ididntdoit99, Aug 19, 2012
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  17. capewind

    capewind

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    A quick search for the wording on shushui....


    Shusui have a neatly arranged line of dark-blue scales along the dorsal line, on a pale-blue skin. The head should be light-blue and it should have red on the cheeks. The abdomen is bright orange or red, like the Asagi, as are the fin joints.

    Several sub-varieties are found:
    - Hi Shusui: where the Hi spreads up from the abdomen covering the back.
    - Hana Shusui: similar to Hi Shusui but with another line of dark-blue mirror scales along the lateral lines.
    - Ki Shusui: very rare, yellow instead of red with the back scales usually blue.
    - Pearl Shusui: very rare, it’s supposed to have silver scales.

    I have a standard koi that I call a BAD shusui, but could well be "any other variety" for all I know. He has NO red or orange at all... The zipper is also not correct. I thought I had a better pic of him, but cant find it. It is the little guy I am using as my avatar pic... When you view his sides, the blue fades down to a very soft cream color. Not sure I would call it even a bad yellow, it is soo light, but it clearly is not white.
     
    capewind, Aug 21, 2012
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  18. capewind

    capewind

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    I tell hubby it is the mom thing. No matter how many kids are at your house, you can see even out of the corner of your eye when one is missing LOL. We have a few Matsubas but there is just enough difference between them that I can tell them apart. Only one is a butterfly, so that one stands out as an individual easily, but with the others, head colors vary, or the amount of black on their back and sides (think the wording is supposed to be pinecone pattern???), I had two I called the twins (solid orange standard koi with some ginrin or metallic type scales), but in the last couple of weeks, have learned to tell them apart at a glance. AKA one got two minor scrapes on the rocks/lost a few scales.. the new scales came in white... and a few days ago, it looks like one is male, one is female... AKA one is very streamline in build, it is the other is plumping up with eggs;-) The twins are still small, only coming up on 8" or so, so the male could still be "female" (time will tell).
     
    capewind, Aug 21, 2012
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  19. capewind

    capewind

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    BTW Larkin, I dont know what to call your guy, other than really pretty!
     
    capewind, Aug 21, 2012
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  20. capewind

    capewind

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    I know some of the die hard koi folks have no use for the butterflies, and that is ok:)

    We found another hybrid in the main pond... wish I had thought to get a pic before putting him into the comet pond... will catch the babies again to over winter those inside, but he was really neat looking.

    Thought it was a white matsuba... when we netted it, he has metallic yellow only around the mouth, til about the nostrils... Fins all start out white at the body, and fade to black. Down both sides, metallic yellow... really bright... like it was drawn on with a sharpie, then a white belly.
     
    capewind, Aug 21, 2012
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