Inherited Pond - Clueless!

[brokensword]

What is the "ribbon"?
I love my no maintenance bog and my water is crystal clear.
Water gets pumped through a PVC pipe that's covered with 12 inches of pea gravel. The PVC pipe has slits cut in it. I made my slits every 1-1/2" apart. The water rises up through the gravel and returns to the pond.
Plants are grown directly in the gravel, no pots.

I think it's akin to indoor media for filters, probably plastic bits of sorts. At least, that's how I took it; a bioball alternate.

 

[cheshirekat]

What is the "ribbon"?
I love my no maintenance bog and my water is crystal clear.
Water gets pumped through a PVC pipe that's covered with 12 inches of pea gravel. The PVC pipe has slits cut in it. I made my slits every 1-1/2" apart. The water rises up through the gravel and returns to the pond.
Plants are grown directly in the gravel, no pots.

I think the ribbon in there is this stuff. https://www.pondandgardendepot.com/springflo-pond-filter-media-bio-ribbon/
It was here already when we bought the house, so I don't know for sure, but it looks like it's the same stuff. It's submerged at the top of the waterfall feature.
Your bog sounds great. How big is your bog surface area compared to your pond surface area? Brokensword says it should be about 30%. I haven't measured yet, but wondering if there is any wiggle room on this.

 

[addy1]

Brokensword says it should be about 30%.

That is the guide line, I have a planter bog on my hot tub pond. It is not 30% but it still keeps the water clear. That pond has only fantails in it so not a huge bioload.

 

[j.w]

@cheshirekat

 

[Lisak1]

I have indeed seen ponds without mechanical filtration, pump or waterfall. They do tend to be larger bodies of water, which are easier to sustain once they are in balance. And they do often go through some extensive "green" periods during spring or really hot weather. The fish don't mind it, but the humans often don't find it desirable!

 

[brokensword]

That is interesting. I didn't realize that aerating plants are a misnomer. I'm happy we have the waterfall to provide the aeration, then. However, I keep getting confused about this issue because this guy seems to think you don't need a pump to have a healthy pond. https://www.motherearthnews.com/diy/garden-and-yard/backyard-pond-zm0z15onzmar That being said, the pond he built is significantly larger than mine, so maybe that plays into being able to have enough plants to do the work and his specific design...

Regarding the overgrown waterlily. I had no idea that it was overgrown. Can you tell just by looking at it? I'm also confused about this because I was under the assumption that plant life is good since it takes in the extra nutrients. Wouldn't cutting it down reduce this?

It's not a misnomer as much as not totally defined. The underwater plants DO oxygenate, but also take in oxygen at night. If you have a lot of underwater oxygenators and a decent fish load, what can happen, especially on hot summer nights, is they take up so much oxygen that the fish can asphyxiate. So if you have oxygenators, I'd keep them to less than a third of your pond bottom surface area.

And this oxygenation is not to the same extent as surface agitation. If you have a very large surface area, the pond gets aerated via the wind and water mixing. But it takes a wide area to offset the no pump. Most of us have garden ponds, not ponds proper and our surface area isn't anything close to enough (unless you deliberately understock, which is a good way to keep your pond healthy but most of us love fish, so...!).

Your waterlily being overgrown isn't a problem, you're just being alerted to the fact it may jump its pot and get loose in your pond. You can bring up your water lily and divide it into more units and repot. So then your one overgrown lily is now maybe 3 lilies. The reason we approach it this way is because there are horror stories of trying to thin/eradicate water lilies after a bout of long freedom. Best to keep them under control, hence pots. Water lilies aren't the best re water filtration but the shade they give and the esthtics as well as beauty re flowers, is worth it.

 

[addy1]

lol I turned some lilies loose in my 1000 gallon stock tank, an experiment. At least if they get too full I have only that pond to clean them out...............

 

[cheshirekat]

First, it would be good to know; is this a liner pond or preformed? From one pic, it seems like a preform. When you listed the depth at 1', that's alarming in that the pond must freeze up pretty deep in Pa. A good person to also ask would be @poconojoe as he's a neighbor of yours. Typical ponds are more like 18" to a more workable 3-4'. You'll have to watch that it doesn't freeze all the way down. Since you say the previous owner didn't do anything, he probably didn't tell you if the pond ever froze solid. Goldfish are tough and can survive being frozen (not ideal and certainly not 100% proof of survivability).

First thing I'd do is get yourself a kiddie pool large enough to hold enough water and get the goldfish out. This will make taking all the muck out a lot easier. Normally we advise to just run a net slowly along the bottom and fish it out but in your case, I'd just remove the fish and then clean the muck. Seems a lot easier and quicker. I'd fill the kiddie pool with the top layer of your pond water--you want this as the water has cycled.

Now realize, the sides and bottom of your pond have bacteria on them that is valuable--it'll help re-start the nitrogen cycle which may keep you from getting an algae bloom. If you can lift the fish, siphon out the water, clean the muck and then refill in a timely fashion, you can hopefully keep the situation from magnifying. Put the fish in buckets and float them in the new water (which also has the kiddie pool water put back in) and acclimate the fish relative to temp. If you're filling using city water, don't forget the dechlorinator as fish can't handle the chlorine/chloramine that's in municipal water). I'd float for 30 minutes or so. If you're lucky, your new water will be close in temp to the kiddie pool water and you'll not stress them much. Again, goldfish are tough.

With all that said;, ideally you want more depth and can consider replacing the preform with a liner pond in which you'd dig deeper to a better depth. That's one option and the one I'd consider as 12" is just too shallow, imo. It'll work, but there's lots of limitations.

Now, once that is initialized, we can talk filtration. Without even knowing what you have, and it won't matter unless you already have my suggestion, consider creating a bog filter. This can be done before you even do the cleaning described above. A bog, more appropriately called 'upflow wetland filtration', is a structure (or side pond, if you want to dig) that houses at least 12" of gravel (pea gravel; round edged stone) and has pipe buried on the bottom whose supply comes from a pump located in your pond. You could also get an external; just more plumbing. I like the submersibles.

This piping from the pond via the pump sends water to the bottom of your bog where it'll rise up through the gravel and pour back into the pond. This creates a waterfall for aeration (something you want to battle algae and help the fish thrive) and allows all the bacteria colonizing your new bog pea stone to break down the bad elements in your pond water. You'll put plants on top and they take out the third bad element; nitrates. Get yourself some floating plants to place in the pond to go along with what looks like your water lily and you'll be set.

With what looks like your waterfall, you'll have a pump that supplies water to it; it may or many not be strong enough to Y off of so you get that bog feed. If not, get another pump or buy a larger one that will feed both.

With all that said, once you clear the pond of the muck, change out the water, provide excellent filtration (once built, you'll not have to do anything again except thin plants now and then in the top of your bog) as it'll give you water clear enough that now the predators can more easily see your fish. You'll consider a net now as this is the only real way to protect them. Or not; it's your pond but once a heron finds it, the fish won't last.

Okay, lots of info. Any questions, fire away as there's lots of good knowledgeable people here to help. And don't let the above scare you; it seems like a lot but you can knock most of this out in a weekend and you'll reap many years of benefits. Do a search re 'bogs' here and you'll find a lot more info to help you learn about such filtration and if such is something you're interested in.

Welcome to GPF!

We’re getting ready to do a clean out of the muck this weekend as you described, but I don’t think we’re going to be able to do it in one day. I’m concerned the fish won’t be ok for the weekend in the baby pool without aerated water. Would you suggest using one of those airstones people mentioned? Also, is there a good tool to use to remove the muck on the bottom? I don’t think we can use a shovel because it will pierce the liner. And, do we scrub the algae off the sides & bottom or just leave it?

 

[brokensword]

We’re getting ready to do a clean out of the muck this weekend as you described, but I don’t think we’re going to be able to do it in one day. I’m concerned the fish won’t be ok for the weekend in the baby pool without aerated water. Would you suggest using one of those airstones people mentioned? Also, is there a good tool to use to remove the muck on the bottom? I don’t think we can use a shovel because it will pierce the liner. And, do we scrub the algae off the sides & bottom or just leave it?

if you don't have an aerator now, I'd get one. It'll be useful for your cleanout and you can use it in the pond proper thereafter. Unless the muck is hardened, I don't think it will take as long as you think; try digging clay that has been soaked with summer heat; now, that's some hard digging.

you might use a hoe, but I'd make sure the edge was dull and not pointed on the ends. You can grind them down if the are. And I'd gently pull it through to loosen, I wouldn't hack down or dig per se. The idea is to loosen so you can just scoop with a bucket or something similar. With the fish out, you have a lot more leeway and if your pond is shallow, you can get in with some boots and work better, if you have to.

Don't scrub the liner/sides/bottom; there's a biofilm there that might survive if you don't let it dry out too long while you work. This will help your pond cycle once you refill it. And it's not even necessary; you're trying to get the bottom clean, not the whole pond. You will have some debris left over but that's what your filtration is for. You might even get out as much as you can, take the hose and put more water in to continue the softening of the much, and once you have the solids out, could set up a siphon and get the fines floating in the refill out that way.

Good luck!

 

[mrsclem]

I would recommend using a pool net. It wont damage the liner and will get all the muck out. Just do a little at a time.

 

[cheshirekat]

if you don't have an aerator now, I'd get one. It'll be useful for your cleanout and you can use it in the pond proper thereafter. Unless the muck is hardened, I don't think it will take as long as you think; try digging clay that has been soaked with summer heat; now, that's some hard digging.

you might use a hoe, but I'd make sure the edge was dull and not pointed on the ends. You can grind them down if the are. And I'd gently pull it through to loosen, I wouldn't hack down or dig per se. The idea is to loosen so you can just scoop with a bucket or something similar. With the fish out, you have a lot more leeway and if your pond is shallow, you can get in with some boots and work better, if you have to.

Don't scrub the liner/sides/bottom; there's a biofilm there that might survive if you don't let it dry out too long while you work. This will help your pond cycle once you refill it. And it's not even necessary; you're trying to get the bottom clean, not the whole pond. You will have some debris left over but that's what your filtration is for. You might even get out as much as you can, take the hose and put more water in to continue the softening of the much, and once you have the solids out, could set up a siphon and get the fines floating in the refill out that way.

Good luck!

So, this past weekend, we cleaned out the whole pond & while it was back-breaking work, I’m so glad we did, because I learned so much of what was going on under the water. We discovered that there are actually 3 depth areas to the pond with the deepest around 3-4 feet; the main area has a shelf around it, I'm assuming for plants. (See pic) We also cleared out the bio-ribbon & replaced with pea gravel at the top of the waterfall area. But, another astonishing discovery was the overgrown lily. If you remember, in my original post, I had said that I thought that the pond was only about 1 ft in depth...this is because the lily had completely and utterly taken over the entire pond and the bottom few feet of the pond were solid with lily roots and an incredible amount of muck. I wonder how long it was actually allowed to grow freely to get to that point. We made a rudimentary siphon with a garden hose (which was a challenge in & of itself) for about the top 1 ft of clean-ish water. But, then the siphon wouldn't work with the dense muck, so the rest of it, we had to strong-arm with buckets. We had to pull out the lily root by root and there really was no saving any portion of it. Afterward, we refilled, added fish back in & put in a bottle of "Stress Coat" and bought 5 floating water hyacinths (see refill pic) - this is all the local store had because it's still too cold to stock other plants - in fact they said I will need to bring the hyacinths in when it falls below freezing these last few chilly spring nights. So...my big question is...now what? I know we will need more plants (but they're not in stock yet). I bought some fish food because now that the lily is gone, I'm afraid there's nothing for them to eat. Is this the right thing to do? How much do I feed them? How many plants should I get for my size pond? Suggest perennials or annuals? Sorry for all the questions...

 

[jmajid]

Oh - that's quite a discovery.
I think @addy1 has said in the past that Lily tuber sections, even broken ones, can be grown again... just put them in a pot and fill with kitty litter (non-fragranced) and submerge.
Also - did i understand you correctly? You removed the bio-ribbon that was in the waterfall area and replaced it with gravel?
If so, then you may have lost some of your biological filtration... #1
Also - did you remove and keep any of the water when first cleaning it out? If not, did you replace the entire water with new water? #2
Did you add de-chlorinator to the new water? #3

#1 and #2 might come back and cause a spike in ammonia/nitrites/nitrates and may cause your fish problems. I would not feed the fish anything right now - they are probably OK for a few days - let the water stabilize... there is probably something they can find. If you do feed, feed very sparingly and not every day.
Do you have aeration? If not, please add - more is better.

 

[cheshirekat]

Oh - that's quite a discovery.
I think @addy1 has said in the past that Lily tuber sections, even broken ones, can be grown again... just put them in a pot and fill with kitty litter (non-fragranced) and submerge.
Also - did i understand you correctly? You removed the bio-ribbon that was in the waterfall area and replaced it with gravel?
If so, then you may have lost some of your biological filtration... #1
Also - did you remove and keep any of the water when first cleaning it out? If not, did you replace the entire water with new water? #2
Did you add de-chlorinator to the new water? #3

#1 and #2 might come back and cause a spike in ammonia/nitrites/nitrates and may cause your fish problems. I would not feed the fish anything right now - they are probably OK for a few days - let the water stabilize... there is probably something they can find. If you do feed, feed very sparingly and not every day.
Do you have aeration? If not, please add - more is better.

Whoopsie, well the lily is all gone. I will have to purchase another!
#1 Yes, we did remove the bio-ribbon and replaced with gravel. Our intent with this is to create a mini-bog that we will plant some plants in. I figure that the pea gravel will act as new biological filtration. Also, we did not scrub that bottom of the pond clean, so I think there is still a good amount of bacteria there.
#2 We did keep a good amount of the water - we put the fish into a baby pool filled with original water, then returned that water to the pond. Although, comparatively to the size of the pond, it wasn't a whole lot.
#3 Yes, we added de-chlorinator in the form of this stuff called "Stress Coat" which also included Aloe and some other stuff that is supposed to be good for the fish' coats.
Yes, we do have aeration - there is a pump with waterfall.

 

[jmajid]

Good you didn't do scrubbing - believe me, I have been there and done that - mistake... don't clean the pond "too" much.
It will cause a crash and your fish will be unhappy.

Since you did replace the filter media, most of the water and have added the fish back, watch out for the levels to go up and the pond will cycle - you will see this happen. Watch for the fish like i mentioned earlier, look for any unusual behavior.
I would keep the feeding to a minimum for a little while yet... the fish will find something to keep them occupied - they will find stuff.

 

[cheshirekat]

Good you didn't do scrubbing - believe me, I have been there and done that - mistake... don't clean the pond "too" much.
It will cause a crash and your fish will be unhappy.

Since you did replace the filter media, most of the water and have added the fish back, watch out for the levels to go up and the pond will cycle - you will see this happen. Watch for the fish like i mentioned earlier, look for any unusual behavior.
I would keep the feeding to a minimum for a little while yet... the fish will find something to keep them occupied - they will find stuff.

Sorry for a simple question, but what does “cycle” mean?