Insecticide?

Discussion in 'Newbies to Garden Ponds' started by bagsmom, Oct 20, 2016.

  1. bagsmom

    bagsmom

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    Hey there! My Dad is all excited about me building a pond, so he has been watching a bunch of youtube videos and such. He said he saw somewhere that you should really put down a good insecticide underneath the underlayment to discourage fire ants and whatnot from crawling under and tunneling around under the pond.

    This scares me a little. I'd think you would have to be very very very careful to not get any of it on your shoes or up on the water side of the liner.

    Thoughts?
     
    bagsmom, Oct 20, 2016
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  2. bagsmom

    Mmathis TurtleMommy

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    Haven't heard anything like that.....ever. @sissy (I think it was?) put down something to kill grubs (to get rid of critters that burrow to eat the grubs), but it's not an insecticide.
     
    Mmathis, Oct 21, 2016
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  3. bagsmom

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Any insecticide that is available without a license that is applied under the liner will lose effectiveness in a short period of time. They are formulated to have a short half-life. Use a 6 oz non-woven geotextile underlayment (typical pond underlayment). This will deter any possible insect damage.
     
    Meyer Jordan, Oct 21, 2016
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  4. bagsmom

    sissy sissy

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    It won't hurt but ants usually don't go to deep but anything that eats bugs can be a problem to your liner .I had moles chew my liner and when I rebuilt I put down container after container of milky spore .It kills grubs so hopefully it will get rid of the moles .Most insecticides only work a short time .I put roofing felt under my liner and underlayment .I put it up the sides also .Cheap to buy and easy to put in .I used 60lb roofing felt and 15 lb roofing felt .Milky spore spreads and spreads as it grows little spores that effect soft grubs and eats them up .I had to put the milky spore all over my property because of moles and there tunnels .I have not seen a tunnel since .
     
    sissy, Oct 21, 2016
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  5. bagsmom

    bagsmom

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    I'm not sure if this is correct or not, but I have only ever found grubs in the nice upper layer of good soil. The pond is way down in the concrete-like red clay and quartz and such. I'm guessing that grubs would rather be in my grass and flower beds. But chipmunks might decide they want a poolside view and might tunnel a house. I wonder if the roofing felt would be enough of a deterrent there. My neighbor has started letting her cats out and they are chipmunk assassins. Maybe they will convince the chipmunks to move to a safer zip code.
     
    bagsmom, Oct 21, 2016
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  6. bagsmom

    sissy sissy

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    I have red clay and they chewed several holes about 6 to 8 inch's deep down inside the pond and that was well below the water line in my pond .The water line starts 5 inch's below the top of the pond .Roofing felt it pretty heavy when you get the thicker stuff .My builder left this behind and not sure why since my roof has ice and water shield under it .I know I was here when the ice and water shield went up .I put 2 layers of 60 lb. half way up the sides and then used the 15 lb felt over it up to the top in 2 layers .I had put milky spore all over before that but did not do the whole front yard .I only did the bottom half .Milky spore was hard to get hold of around here ,but finally lowes starting getting it in .I bought lots of it to finish the yard since The side of the pond after the stray dog got in my pond . 100_8573.JPG
     
    sissy, Oct 21, 2016
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  7. bagsmom

    carolinaguy

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    Insecticide is a waste of time as mentioned above. Gone in a couple of months. Firestone underpayment is the best idea. Do not use discarded carpet.
     
    carolinaguy, Mar 3, 2017
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  8. bagsmom

    Spartamets

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    I used underlayment, so this is an idle question, but why not use discarded carpet? I remember when researching my pond's construction that using it was common advice.
     
    Spartamets, Mar 12, 2017
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  9. bagsmom

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    I used carpet we removed from our Arizona house for my pond there. It was still in great shape years later, just a little dirty lol. Just need to make sure there are not a lot of staples, carpet nails that could mess with the liner. We cut the nailed edge off before using.
     
    addy1, Mar 12, 2017
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  10. bagsmom

    Lisak1

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    Lots of people use old carpet or old carpet pad. I think it's a great idea - upcycling is all the rage now, and it's better than tossing it in the landfill. Some people have even used carpet, and then underlayment where sharp rocks in the natural landscape were a concern.
     
    Lisak1, Mar 12, 2017
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  11. bagsmom

    carolinaguy

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    No one is saying that used carpet is an inherently bad idea. The only point is that if you plan to own that pond for 15 years, carpet is constructed with a cotton backing which is a cellulose food source, and we have seen that termites can damage the liner when drawn to the liner space in their search for food. Waste construction wood, dead roots, and dead branches left in the liner hole can attract them. There are estimated to be 26 termite nests per acre in the Carolinas. Now that number may be high because some nests have been identified as satellite outposts around a main nest, however, the count remains the same. If you want to construct conservatively, use pond underpayment. Instead of flex hose use pvc. We have built three ponds and have always used pvc, Fiberglas underpayment and some sort of cover to protect the liner from uv damage. Our last pond is about 14 years old and shows no sign of liner deterioration or leaks. We also use concrete block for the sideways and hardiboard for the bottom so chipmunks and other digging critters have never been a problem. That doesn't mean we are right and other methods are wrong. We are just trying to share what we have experienced. It could just be luck, but then luck favors preparation.
     
    carolinaguy, Mar 12, 2017
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  12. bagsmom

    Lisak1

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    Probably good to know your region - we don't have termite problems in our area. 26 per acre? You are just living on a mass of termite nests there! Chipmunks we have, but they aren't deep diggers... too busy eating my tomatoes right off the vine.

    I've noticed you say "underpayment" - is that an autocorrect for underlayment?
     
    Lisak1, Mar 12, 2017
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  13. bagsmom

    Faebinder

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    I picked up some chipmunks in the falls of the pond this last fall. What's bad about chipmunks?
     
    Faebinder, Mar 12, 2017
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  14. bagsmom

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    We have a few chipmunks they wander in and wander out. Have never bothered the ponds.
     
    addy1, Mar 12, 2017
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  15. bagsmom

    carolinaguy

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    Northern Illinois? Contact your county agent and ask him how many termite next per acre have been identified in your area. You will be surprised at the answer?
     
    carolinaguy, Mar 13, 2017
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  16. bagsmom

    Lisak1

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    Really? I've lived here my entire life and I've never seen a termite nor heard of a single person having termite damage. Ever. Not one time. But you don't think I can trust my powers of observation?
     
    Lisak1, Mar 13, 2017
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  17. bagsmom

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    We have ants everywhere, live on a ant hill!
     
    addy1, Mar 14, 2017
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