Interior swimming space VS amount of gallons

[Marcelo B]

Good morning, I have a strange question.

I have read that a good rule of thumb no to over populate your pond is 1" of fish every 10 gallons of water.... now... does the amount of gallons needed are because of amount of oxygen they need?, amount of water they need so the waste of the fish does not contaminates the water too quick?, algae production?, amount of water needed for the koi to grow?....... or they use gallons in order to relate it to the actual physical size of the pond and the space they need to swim?

The reason I'm asking this questions is because I have a pond along the walkway that leads to my front door but I made it too deep and between the depth, the movement of the water due to the waterfall, sun reflections, etc, the koi can bearly be seen during the day, so I was thinking to make it shallower so they can be seen, (I have seen shallower ponds, 18" to 24", mine at the deepest ends is 48" and they pretty much stay there must of the time) so first I thought to fill it up with concrete, but if I do that I will reducing the gallons from1200 to about 600, then I thought of doing a double bottom by installing a perforated PVC board at about 24" from the surface making the swimming space less deep but keeping the mount of total gallons in the pond the same.

Any thoughts? comments? suggestions?

Thanks!!


Marcelo B.

 

[sissy]

The reason they may stay lower is water is cooler .I have seen that here with my pond when sun and heat get bad .They know they want no sunburn I guess .What kind of fish and how many gallons and temps. of water .I use aerator to keep water moving instead of a big waterfall .

 

[MoonShadows]

1" of fish for every 10 gallons (and other parameters) is mistakenly used by many people. There are many factors. See this link which I took from Member @MitchM signature: How many fish can your pond handle? https://russellwatergardens.com/pages/how-many-fish-can-i-have-in-my-pond

And, Koi grow fast. If you make your pond 600, you really shouldn't keep Koi. Goldfish would be a better choice.

 

[sissy]

it would be better any way to change fish my koi are over 2 feet long and goldfish breed to much and it would be better with fantails as they are slow and seem to always stay near the surface and can be really friendly if raised right

 

[Meyer Jordan]

What are the surface dimensions of your pond?

 

[Mmathis]

What are the surface dimensions of your pond?

Original post (link below), but no answers for further info yet.....

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/hello-to-all.21566/

@Marcelo B Please do give us more information about your pond! We really can't help you if you state problems and/or questions, but don't give us any information to work from.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Original post (link below), but no answers for further info yet.....

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/hello-to-all.21566/

@Marcelo B Please do give us more information about your pond! We really can't help you if you state problems and/or questions, but don't give us any information to work from.

All the OP mentions is 1200 gallons and 4 feet deep at one end. Need to know surface area.

 

[Marcelo B]

Hi everyone, thank you very much for your help, here is more information and answers to your question. The pond is 32 feet long by 2 feet wide and the deepest is 4 feet and the shallowest is 8".

I have only koi fish, the water temperature is always on average of 75 to 82 degrees.
They do come up and go to the shallower side very often, but as soon as someone walks by the pond to look at them, they run to the deep side and they become not visible. Any thoughts on making it less deep?

Thank you very much for all your help!! Bests,
Marcelo B.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I like the 32 foot length, but the 2 foot width...Yikes!. Hardly enough space for a full grown koi to turn around. In fact it is not wide enough for some of the 'lunkers' that I have seen.
Reducing the depth of 4 feet will also reduce your pond's total capacity in gallons which is not the best route to take/ Your fish are still perceiving humans as predators, Try spending more time with them. They will gradually lose their fear of humans. They can be trained to eat out of your hand.
I know that you would like to keep your Koi, but this water feature is more suited to Goldfish.
There is no way to make it shallower that won;t compromise water quality other than pouring more concrete into the deepest end. That would involve removing the fish to a temporary facility for a considerable length of time waiting for the concrete to cure and then sealing it.

 

[Lisak1]

Please also remember @Marcelo B that your fish need a place to get out of the sun, just like we do. You have what is basically a reflecting pond, so your fish are exposed all the time. This is another reason they seek the deepest level, as the sun penetration becomes less intense. Providing them with some plant coverage will encourage them to swim around more.

This would be a lovely goldfish pond. For koi, as has been stated, it's just too narrow.

 

[peter hillman]

Man I like that pond..... Even without fish it's cool. Skip the koi, overrated as pets, pond comets will take food from you hand and be more active. But Like Meyer said, the more time you spend with them the more friendly they get. How can my fish tell the difference between me and anyone else I don't know, but they do.

 

[Usman]

love ur pond , i think its related to habit , how they are trained and sense of security . even in shallower ponds koi can behave like this , it happens to me many times and even in deepest small ponds koi can b hovering at surface and hand feeding .

there can b factors which might b affecting but not surely , they play little part like the pond is narrow from top it gives them sense of insecurity as they feel they cant run in all directions if danger comes , there instinct when they r at surface and see any sudden movement they wud swim quickly in any direction as reflex to b safe . u see in aquariums fishes are mostly at the bottom can b bcz of its shape

other thing can b lack of shelter and plants they feel homely safe stealth , i have seen very big pond in a public place which was 30x30 and 3 ft deep but koi were shy , only reason i could see was there wsnt any shelter it was modern pond all clean bottom no rocks no plants no curves caves etc . other reason can b that if they are raised as fry or young that can help and owner gives them much time .

i can think of this u can try you can build a pvc/wooden frame with suitable size fishing net installed in it and u can fit it in middle of ur pond to reduce depth or simply hang it without frame but these things may or may not work other thing u can do is .... if ur willing to invest some money and time then instead of making it shallow u can widen it , u can remove its border then add 15x15 inches shelf on both side , filling the pond with concrete will cost u alot for 32x2 2ft deep

yes u can add few goldfishes they might bring some change as they will stay on top mostly

volume is equally important as space for swimming and stable water quality but these things can be compensated by extra filtration and water flow ,aeration IMO

 

[Marcelo B]

love ur pond , i think its related to habit , how they are trained and sense of security . even in shallower ponds koi can behave like this , it happens to me many times and even in deepest small ponds koi can b hovering at surface and hand feeding .

there can b factors which might b affecting but not surely , they play little part like the pond is narrow from top it gives them sense of insecurity as they feel they cant run in all directions if danger comes , there instinct when they r at surface and see any sudden movement they wud swim quickly in any direction as reflex to b safe . u see in aquariums fishes are mostly at the bottom can b bcz of its shape

other thing can b lack of shelter and plants they feel homely safe stealth , i have seen very big pond in a public place which was 30x30 and 3 ft deep but koi were shy , only reason i could see was there wsnt any shelter it was modern pond all clean bottom no rocks no plants no curves caves etc . other reason can b that if they are raised as fry or young that can help and owner gives them much time .

i can think of this u can try you can build a pvc/wooden frame with suitable size fishing net installed in it and u can fit it in middle of ur pond to reduce depth or simply hang it without frame but these things may or may not work other thing u can do is .... if ur willing to invest some money and time then instead of making it shallow u can widen it , u can remove its border then add 15x15 inches shelf on both side , filling the pond with concrete will cost u alot for 32x2 2ft deep

yes u can add few goldfishes they might bring some change as they will stay on top mostly

volume is equally important as space for swimming and stable water quality but these things can be compensated by extra filtration and water flow ,aeration IMO

 

[Marcelo B]

Good morning to all, thank you so so much for all your input.
Here are a few more pictures of the pond, these were taken this morning, the one I posted first it does not show some of the features that it has today. Once we finished the pond we installed a 10'x10' shade roof over the end of the pond creating shade, also we have a bridge to go over so that also creates shade for them. also, we have a aeration system right under the fountain that's on 24/7 and another one under the bridge that turns on at dawn and turns off at sunrise as well as the lights (actually the lights turn off when we go to bed or at midnight).
We have connected to the system a 80W UV light as well as a 24"x 36" Howard filtration system filled with bio-balls.
Also, we have connected to our system a 1" well water line that pumps water to fill it up and we have it on a schedule to shoot water in every day for one minute (due to evaporation and it cools it s bit), and we also once a month do a 40%-60% water change. I have tested the well water several times and the results are perfect.
Making the pond wider is not an option, I will try first to rise the bottom of it a bit using HDPE marine board and make openings on it to allow water circulation. Also, I will do some plants, any suggestions? we would like a plant that grows vertical and that koi won't eat it.

Thank you very much for all your advice.
Bests,
Marcelo B.

 

[Usman]

Good morning to all, thank you so so much for all your input.
Here are a few more pictures of the pond, these were taken this morning, the one I posted first it does not show some of the features that it has today. Once we finished the pond we installed a 10'x10' shade roof over the end of the pond creating shade, also we have a bridge to go over so that also creates shade for them. also, we have a aeration system right under the fountain that's on 24/7 and another one under the bridge that turns on at dawn and turns off at sunrise as well as the lights (actually the lights turn off when we go to bed or at midnight).
We have connected to the system a 80W UV light as well as a 24"x 36" Howard filtration system filled with bio-balls.
Also, we have connected to our system a 1" well water line that pumps water to fill it up and we have it on a schedule to shoot water in every day for one minute (due to evaporation and it cools it s bit), and we also once a month do a 40%-60% water change. I have tested the well water several times and the results are perfect.
Making the pond wider is not an option, I will try first to rise the bottom of it a bit using HDPE marine board and make openings on it to allow water circulation. Also, I will do some plants, any suggestions? we would like a plant that grows vertical and that koi won't eat it.

Thank you very much for all your advice.
Bests,
Marcelo B.

cool lighting looks good at night u can use water Lilly in a pot . i had idea about it that its not bcz of sun , or they wud come up in the afternoon , its other factors , great filtration and water changing system , but best is when u add water daily , have a water outlet and make it overflow for 5 min too then u dont need to do water change monthly either , i think 40% is too much for a sudden change . instead daily 5% is better