Just a few questions-

[TgM]

3800 Gal Pond
4000 Tera Pressure Filter w UV on 4200 gph Tera pump
150 gal Skippy style fed by 2 skimmers on 2 1800 gph pumps

Re-dug my pond to 3800 gal last fall and put in 6 feeder fish to the pond up and running last fall. I was wanting to add some koi this spring, but not knowing when to do this or how many(say 8 at once or a couple at a time over the summer). My 150 Skippy was just built this spring so its just getting started. I've got some Bacteria to add whenever the temps stabilize some, probably in a few weeks. In adding the Koi all at once I wasn't sure if there'd be an ammonia issue or shock the system this early in the season. Was planning on adding around the first of May or when the temps stabilize a bit more.

Was also wanting to get a few opinions on fish load with this size pond and the filtration that I have. I know fish load is all about water quality. With a 3800 gallon pond and around 5000-6000 gph moving through the filters after head loss, just wanted some thoughts. No bottom drain (I know I know), I was a little overwhelmed about cutting a few holes in the bottom of the liner. I suck the muck off the bottom w a pond vac 4.


Thanks

T

 

[Tula]

My pond is 1670 gallons and I've got five koi, no other fish. I think I'm ok, although sometimes I wonder if I'd be better off with just 4....they do grow fast

With 3800 gallons, you could probably start with 6 - 8 and see how it goes. I would wait for your filters to cycle first. I'm thinking about a pond vac....currently I use a net.

 

[TgM]

4-6 weeks on filters to cycle correct? Pond vac is still in the box, just arrived a few weeks ago. Netted most everything out already. Let you know how it goes.

Thanks

T

 

[dieselplower]

its hard to say how long it takes biological filters to establish a cycle. longer when it is cold outside. faster when it is warm. i think your pond could handle that fish load but ask yourself this... what about when the fish spawn? do i want 100+ goldfish? 100+ koi? or 100+ koi/golfish mix? fish can lay hundreds of eggs at a time. maybe you will want to rehome the goldfish to be sure if your koi breed, they will not be half koi and half goldfish?

 

[addy1]

I tend to agree with diesel, koi get huge, goldfish breed like crazy, they will cross breed. You might want to remove the gf. Rehome them ..............or build a gf only pond lol

 

[Catfishnut]

TgM,

Welcome to the Garden Pond Forums!

In the world of ponds, everyone has strong opinions, especially about filtering and biological converter systems and algae and many other things. That being said I want to state, unequivocally, that the following is just my personal opinion and not a mandate or some edict passed down to me by a deity to be scribed in stone... But, I am not a supporter of the skippy style filter systems. There, I said it.

Now that that cat is out of the bag, I have to be fair and tell you that skippy filters work to some extent in ceratin applications. So it is not a sin to apply such a filter in my way of thinking. I just believe that a person could do a lot better with one of the other filtration and biological converter systems and methods that are available.

Bogs, moving bed media systems, trickle towers and showers, and forms of sand filters would be, again in my opinion, better than a skippy. The problem I see with a skippy filter system is that the design uses the media inside to perform multiple duties. Namely mechanical filtration AND biological conversion of the ammonia and nitrogen and the nitrites.

My own past experience and my newfound knowledge about filter systems is leading me to believe that it is much better, more efficient and more maintenance friendly, to separate the tasks required of a filter system into individual stages.

1] Filter Mechanically to remove large solids and undisolved debris.
2] Filter Biologically to remove ammonia, nitrites and nitrates.
3] Filter Ultravioletly to remove single cell algae, organisms and bacteria, etc.
4] Filter Chemically to remove harmful elements with media such as BIRM, Zeolite, charcoal, activated carbon, etc.
5] Maintain the aeration of the water through all stages as oxygen helps every stage.
6] Maintain the water temperature as this assists each stage, too.
7] Maintain the pH and kH and many other factors as this assists each stage as well.
8] Monitor your influent and effluent water water quality to track the efficacy and operation of the entire system at all times.
9] Grow aquatic plants in all accessible areas of your system that you can to remove nitrates and add O2.
10] Incorporate diversity of aquatic life in your pond. Multiple species of fish and other life. Everybody needs somebody!
11] Practice good pond husbandry. A neglected pond fails, a well cared for one has a good chance to survive and be beautiful.
So enjoy your pond and its survival will reflect well upon you if you care for it well. The life in the pond is obviously not the
the same as your human children, but remember that it is life. The creatures in your pond are God's creations and you are
responsible for them if you decide to adopt them in this way.

Well, anyway, I am not trying to preach about anything here, I am just spouting out about my own ideas. If you like mine, you may adopt them. If you don't then you can develope your own style of ponding that suits your personal taste and style. Personally, I just like to hear myself talk. Ha Ha Seriously, I really do have a great fondness towards nature and all this and I just wish to beat my gums with everyone else about the subjects that we love so much.

Gordy,

The insane catfishing nut

 

[TgM]

Great info. I'll respond to your points tonight when I get a chance. It's a continual learning experience isn't it. Bass fisherman my self. We've got a 1/3 acre pond also, my son has caught 5-6 channels 7-9lbers out of it.

Thanks Gordy.

T

 

[Catfishnut]

Great info. I'll respond to your points tonight when I get a chance. It's a continual learning experience isn't it. Bass fisherman my self. We've got a 1/3 acre pond also, my son has caught 5-6 channels 7-9lbers out of it.

Thanks Gordy.

T

First of all, you are welcome.

Second of all, are you saying that your son is a better fisherman than you? Or just now learning the ropes from you?

LOL

PS If you want to BS with me and I am not on line, feel free to PM me anytime. Always up for a good conversation! Might have to take a nap now though. I am getting old and working twelve hours and going to bed at 9 am is taking its toll. i better start going to bed earlier fom now on.

 

[TgM]

He's better @ catfish, we've got a 4 acre bass pond we fish, it's a beautiful pond. We'll be throwing spinners, rattle traps and dang near every time he'll hook a 3-4 lb channel. Usually on a rattle trap or fat rap. Pretty funny.

Our pond it's usually crawlers or cheese. He is better but I don't really fish for them.

 

[shakaho]

I suggest you add your koi (I'm assuming small ones) one at a time at one week intervals. You already have nitrifiers in your system, but these must reproduce to handle the increased ammonia. They are rather slow dividers for microbes, so give them some time to catch up after each addition and your parameters will remain healthy.

I agree with everyone who said stock far fewer koi than you want. You can always add fish later, and you will find fish you must have. I wouldn't worry about a goldfish population explosion in a pond that has koi. Koi will eat baby goldfish that the adult goldfish have already accepted as "one of us." Your fall feeders are unlikely to spawn this spring, so when they do spawn there will be plenty of big fish to keep the population under control.

 

[TgM]

Thanks shakaho, that's kinda what I was wondering. Didn't figure you could just dump 6 or 8 in and go, I'd be hard for your bio filters / nitrifiers to adjust to the new load.

 

[sissy]

I have given lots of baby fish away and funny thing is around the time my pond started leaking I gave like 9 babies away and then when I moved fish to tanks I found 5 more and gave them away and then low and behold there were 4 more after I started really emptying pond and not sure where all these guys came from, but there they were and there they went .bye bye

 

[Dave 54]

TgM,

Welcome to the Garden Pond Forums!

In the world of ponds, everyone has strong opinions, especially about filtering and biological converter systems and algae and many other things. That being said I want to state, unequivocally, that the following is just my personal opinion and not a mandate or some edict passed down to me by a deity to be scribed in stone... But, I am not a supporter of the skippy style filter systems. There, I said it.

Now that that cat is out of the bag, I have to be fair and tell you that skippy filters work to some extent in ceratin applications. So it is not a sin to apply such a filter in my way of thinking. I just believe that a person could do a lot better with one of the other filtration and biological converter systems and methods that are available.

Bogs, moving bed media systems, trickle towers and showers, and forms of sand filters would be, again in my opinion, better than a skippy. The problem I see with a skippy filter system is that the design uses the media inside to perform multiple duties. Namely mechanical filtration AND biological conversion of the ammonia and nitrogen and the nitrites.

My own past experience and my newfound knowledge about filter systems is leading me to believe that it is much better, more efficient and more maintenance friendly, to separate the tasks required of a filter system into individual stages.

1] Filter Mechanically to remove large solids and undisolved debris.
2] Filter Biologically to remove ammonia, nitrites and nitrates.
3] Filter Ultravioletly to remove single cell algae, organisms and bacteria, etc.
4] Filter Chemically to remove harmful elements with media such as BIRM, Zeolite, charcoal, activated carbon, etc.
5] Maintain the aeration of the water through all stages as oxygen helps every stage.
6] Maintain the water temperature as this assists each stage, too.
7] Maintain the pH and kH and many other factors as this assists each stage as well.
8] Monitor your influent and effluent water water quality to track the efficacy and operation of the entire system at all times.
9] Grow aquatic plants in all accessible areas of your system that you can to remove nitrates and add O2.
10] Incorporate diversity of aquatic life in your pond. Multiple species of fish and other life. Everybody needs somebody!
11] Practice good pond husbandry. A neglected pond fails, a well cared for one has a good chance to survive and be beautiful.
So enjoy your pond and its survival will reflect well upon you if you care for it well. The life in the pond is obviously not the
the same as your human children, but remember that it is life. The creatures in your pond are God's creations and you are
responsible for them if you decide to adopt them in this way.

Well, anyway, I am not trying to preach about anything here, I am just spouting out about my own ideas. If you like mine, you may adopt them. If you don't then you can develope your own style of ponding that suits your personal taste and style. Personally, I just like to hear myself talk. Ha Ha Seriously, I really do have a great fondness towards nature and all this and I just wish to beat my gums with everyone else about the subjects that we love so much.

Gordy,

The insane catfishing nut

I think Gordy just about covers everything there is to know , however be aware that your decision to not put bottom drains into your pond may in the furure come along and catch you out if particular attention isnt kept with the amount of detritus in your pondat any given time.
Winter in particular would be my main worry and as such a rigid maintenance routine is required as gordy is suggesting ,


Dave

 

[sissy]

I don't have bottom drains and just felt i could not do them correctly .I did not want to put a hole in my liner that may leak ,these liners are not cheap .I just use a swimming pool net .I have seen several in pond bottom drains where you just have the pipe and stuff in side .I set up a piece of abs pipe with holes drilled in it on the bottom with 2 end caps and one has a hole drilled in it to except a hose from an extra pond pump i have .The inlet of the pump sucks the stuff out through a hose I have on the outlet .I figured that would help a little also .I just plug the pump in to use it .It worked on my old pond so figure it could not hurt to try it again

 

[TgM]

Yeah, I was overwhelmed by the thought of putting in bottom drains may regret it later but thought I'd go net & a vac.

Thanks for the input everyone.