Koi concern

[Hev]

hi, I am hoping someone with koi experience can tell me please why my koi who is around a15” long has developed a large oval shape around his middle. He seems to be floating on his side a lot at the bottom of the pond and I am concerned.
I have had him for around 2 years and he was given to me by a gentleman who was emptying his pond and I believe he is around 10 years old.
I have about 30 fish and 10 of these are koi and he is the largest by far and so it is worrying to see him floating like this for past 2 months.
Any advice would be great fully appreciated
Heather

 

[sissy]

We can help if we knew something more about your pond .Like size and depth ,how many gallons and do you test the water and what kind of filter All these things are important to fish care .Also koi need lots of oxygen ,I know i have koi .You may or may not be over stocked .The biggest fish always die first and this could be just a ign of something worse .What also is the temperature of your pond water

 

[mrsclem]

Hello and welcome to GPF! Is it possible to post a picture of your fish so we can see exactly what the problem is?

 

[Hev]

Thank you for responses and I will get all of the information you have asked tomorrow and take a picture of him. On the testing water, no I can honestly say never tested the water what am I testing for? I will say we’ve had the pond around 4 years and had many many babies over the years so I’m guessing the water is fine. I lost quite a few fish few months back (ghastly heron) but last year it appears that there are around another 40 babies In addition to my current fish which are a mix of gold fish and koi.

 

[Dave 54]

hi, I am hoping someone with koi experience can tell me please why my koi who is around a15” long has developed a large oval shape around his middle. He seems to be floating on his side a lot at the bottom of the pond and I am concerned.
I have had him for around 2 years and he was given to me by a gentleman who was emptying his pond and I believe he is around 10 years old.
I have about 30 fish and 10 of these are koi and he is the largest by far and so it is worrying to see him floating like this for past 2 months.
Any advice would be great fully appreciated
Heather

Hi @Hev Floating on his side and huge oval stomach , I have a feeling that your koi may well have dropsy which is putting pressure on his swim bladder causing him to loose equilibrium in the water and sink to the bottom and onto his side .
It being winter there isn't really allot you can do for it at the moment and it may well be that it has been left to late to do anything , it is recommended though he is taken out and placed in a QT facility .
There are three types of dropsy bacterial viral and lastly parasite which is rarely seen , it is recommended you remove the koi from the pond then slowly raise the temperature of the QT facility to around 25c over time at a rate of 1c every day or two.
Adding salt to the water of your QT facility may help but this may well have also been brought about by organ failure due to old age .
It being the wrong time of year and the amount of time he has been on his side (2 months ) , i would suggest doing the kindest thing for him and consider Euthanasia by use of MS222 anaesthesia or Oil of cloves at a rate of around ten ml per gallon of your QT facility .
Don't worry Dropsy shouldn't effect any other koi in your pond but good husbandry water changes and testing your water plus maintaining your filtration etc can help prevent it happening again .
Sorry for the bad news

Dave 54

 

[Hev]

Hi @Hev Floating on his side and huge oval stomach , I have a feeling that your koi may well have dropsy which is putting pressure on his swim bladder causing him to loose equilibrium in the water and sink to the bottom and onto his side .
It being winter there isn't really allot you can do for it at the moment and it may well be that it has been left to late to do anything , it is recommended though he is taken out and placed in a QT facility .
There are three types of dropsy bacterial viral and lastly parasite which is rarely seen , it is recommended you remove the koi from the pond then slowly raise the temperature of the QT facility to around 25c over time at a rate of 1c every day or two.
Adding salt to the water of your QT facility may help but this may well have also been brought about by organ failure due to old age .
It being the wrong time of year and the amount of time he has been on his side (2 months ) , i would suggest doing the kindest thing for him and consider Euthanasia by use of MS222 anaesthesia or Oil of cloves at a rate of around ten ml per gallon of your QT facility .
Don't worry Dropsy shouldn't effect any other koi in your pond but good husbandry water changes and testing your water plus maintaining your filtration etc can help prevent it happening again .
Sorry for the bad news

Dave 54

Dave
Thanks for response which has made me feel so sad and I feel bad for not putting something on here sooner but I was hoping he was just under the weather but I now realize it may be terrible outcome reading you’re response. I will take a picture of him and post it on here before I do anything
Thanks again
Heather

 

[Dave 54]

Dave
Thanks for response which has made me feel so sad and I feel bad for not putting something on here sooner but I was hoping he was just under the weather but I now realize it may be terrible outcome reading you’re response. I will take a picture of him and post it on here before I do anything
Thanks again
Heather

Hev pictures as long as they are of a good resolution do help in diagnoses but I'm pretty sure of what it is however I would like to view him to confirm it
To expand your knowledge of koi health issues I have a list of koi and fish health books that are pa
rt of my own library of books .
Please feel free to use the list which has titles, ISBN numbers and Authors names

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/articles/our-updated-library-with-reviews.11/


Dave 54

 

[Hev]

Hev pictures as long as they are of a good resolution do help in diagnoses but I'm pretty sure of what it is however I would like to view him to confirm it
To expand your knowledge of koi health issues I have a list of koi and fish health books that are pa
rt of my own library of books .
Please feel free to use the list which has titles, ISBN numbers and Authors names

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/articles/our-updated-library-with-reviews.11/


Dave 54

 

[Hev]

View attachment 107939 View attachment 107940 View attachment 107941 View attachment 107942

Hev pictures as long as they are of a good resolution do help in diagnoses but I'm pretty sure of what it is however I would like to view him to confirm it
To expand your knowledge of koi health issues I have a list of koi and fish health books that are pa
rt of my own library of books .
Please feel free to use the list which has titles, ISBN numbers and Authors names

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/articles/our-updated-library-with-reviews.11/


Dave 54

I hope these are clear enough these were taken this morning
Heather

 

[mrsclem]

Hev, hopefully Dave will be on the site soon. It looks like the scales are sticking out like a pinecone. That would be dropsy. A lot of pond owners say my water is clear and I haven't changes anything so why test my water. Your fish change from year to year. They grow, have babies, etc. Even if you have never had a problem, its a good idea to test your water a couple of times a year so you know what is normal and head off a problem. Hopefully Dave will be able to give some treatment ideas. Invest in an API test kit for ph, ammonia , nitrites & nitrates.

 

[Dave 54]

Not all koi with dropsy pine cone but from what I can see there is a definate build up of fluid inside this koi ., I've ruled out the fish being egg bound as they normally re absorb them , there is one other possibility and I've come across plus autopsied which was a huge build up of fat which as the results showed had acctually ruptured the swim bladder with the same results .
It turned out the koi had been feed the wrong food (non koi food Heavy with protien) and belonged to a former club member of the Plymouth section who had bought it from a lady who's husband was the koi keeper and who had died the year before.:-
A tad grotesque I know @Hev but normally this is the only way to find out what went or was wrong with the koi

 

[Tula]

I see a bit of "pine coning" in the abdomen area . Is a tumor also a possibility? In my opinion, whatever the diagnosis, a humane euthanasia would be the kindest thing to do for this poor koi.

 

[Hev]

Hev, hopefully Dave will be on the site soon. It looks like the scales are sticking out like a pinecone. That would be dropsy. A lot of pond owners say my water is clear and I haven't changes anything so why test my water. Your fish change from year to year. They grow, have babies, etc. Even if you have never had a problem, its a good idea to test your water a couple of times a year so you know what is normal and head off a problem. Hopefully Dave will be able to give some treatment ideas. Invest in an API test kit for ph, ammonia , nitrites & nitrates.

Thanks mrsclem
Well I will definitely invest in one of those kits you don’t think about the changes as you say babies which we’ve had 3 years in a row and growing as my white koi I bought 4 years ago has just grown sooo much. I will wait for Dave to advise but I’m obviously thinking the worst now.
Heather

 

[Hev]

Not all koi with dropsy pine cone but from what I can see there is a definate build up of fluid inside this koi ., I've ruled out the fish being egg bound as they normally re absorb them , there is one other possibility and I've come across plus autopsied which was a huge build up of fat which as the results showed had acctually ruptured the swim bladder with the same results .
It turned out the koi had been feed the wrong food (non koi food Heavy with protien) and belonged to a former club member of the Plymouth section who had bought it from a lady who's husband was the koi keeper and who had died the year before.:-View attachment 107943 View attachment 107944 View attachment 107945 View attachment 107946
A tad grotesque I know @Hev but normally this is the only way to find out what went or was wrong with the koi

Dave 54

Oh Dave thanks but somehow i can’t possibly cut him open is there somewhere that will do this for me do you know ?
Dave the euthanasia you mentioned with using oil cloves can I ask how quick this method is ?
Heather

 

[Hev]

Not all koi with dropsy pine cone but from what I can see there is a definate build up of fluid inside this koi ., I've ruled out the fish being egg bound as they normally re absorb them , there is one other possibility and I've come across plus autopsied which was a huge build up of fat which as the results showed had acctually ruptured the swim bladder with the same results .
It turned out the koi had been feed the wrong food (non koi food Heavy with protien) and belonged to a former club member of the Plymouth section who had bought it from a lady who's husband was the koi keeper and who had died the year before.:-View attachment 107943 View attachment 107944 View attachment 107945 View attachment 107946
A tad grotesque I know @Hev but normally this is the only way to find out what went or was wrong with the koi

Dave 54

Fave
Sorry can I ask asyou mention non koi food we have mixture of goldfish , comets and koi so we mix normal and koi food is this correct thing to do or feed them all koi food ?