koi rubbing their sides help needed

[pdpond]

Hey everyone.
I have six large koi. 2 of which are what seems to be trying to rub their sides. They do a quick swim
Turn on their side to rub then straighten up.
Its not continuous but ofen enough to notice
Any ideas? Should I worry?
Don

 

[Ruben Miranda]

Hello
Could be a few things
First can you give water perimeters and close up picks of your fish.

It could be itch for one

Ruben

 

[Dave 54]

We call it flashing it could well be whitespot.... Formalin and Malachite green is the treatmt for that but you really should identify the problem first to be sure oof what you are treating and if your using the right chenmicals for the job in the first place .
Its no good using the wrong chemicals is it ?
This is where you really should have axess to a good microscope to take a slide to see what it is attacking your koi


rgrds

Dave

 

[pdpond]

I use test strips and I know they aren't the best but they show no issues in the water, as well just a few days ago I was going to the pet store so I had them test my water, they said there is nothing wrong with my water, since then I have done a 20% water exchange

getting a picture is not going to be easy at all, the koi are hiding on the bottom most of the time, they aren't accustom to our family yet, and I am not going to try to catch them and take the chance of spooking them even more, they don't even come up to the surface to eat yet until you walk away and they can't see you

they were in the quarantine tank for 2 weeks with a .3% reading of salt, I know its not long enough for quarantine but they are in the pond with a few goldfish I wasn't worried about the carrying any disease to the goldfish if any they were only there so they could be treated with salt since there is no live plants there

 

[Mmathis]

Just curious, but a couple of weeks ago you had 3 small koi (3"?). Now you have "6 large koi." Did you quarantine these new koi?

 

[Dave 54]

True if you didnt you may have passed this on to your other koi and that why they have started flashing as they may not have been properly QT'd at the place where you got them from, now you need to take a scrape and put the slide under a microscope.
Any in-action in doing this means you dont know exactly what to treat for it may very well be flukes which if thats the case you need Superverm to destroy them.
Or one of a miriad of other problems caused by Parasites all which need to be identified for respective teatments.
It could very well be anyone of these parasites bellow :-





















Rgrds

Dave

 

[pdpond]

once again

they were in the quarantine tank for 2 weeks with a .3% reading of salt, I know its not long enough for quarantine but they are in the pond with a few goldfish I wasn't worried about the carrying any disease to the goldfish if any they were only there so they could be treated with salt since there is no live plants there

 

[pdpond]

Dave I'm not trying to be a marine biologist, there has to be an easier way that I can narrow this down with the bare eye of what it could be, I know you mean well
I guess I will just google it

 

[Mmathis]

Ooops, sorry! Didn't catch that you'd QT'd them for 2 weeks -- I was thinking back to your other problem, and didn't recall your mentioning that you had any others in QT during that time frame.

There's a lot of good info out there about parasites, but like Dave says, you need to know what you're treating.

http://www.simikoi.com/article8.html

 

[pdpond]

Why do you think im here?

 

[Dave 54]

Believe me the flukes you wont know about nor the gil flukes I doubt you'd notice many of the harder to see symptoms until it was too late.
Yes you might catch a fungal infection, white spot, argulus etc but what of the others they are all part of the greater picture
Thats why I'm trying to educate you into thinking, you know Daves right because since weve done a yearly scrape weve not lost any fish.
Plus Iv'e caught this and that and stopped things in their infancy before the probllrm went out of control and the fish are looking great.
We are trying to take you to the next level in fish keeping thats all nojing wromg in that is there?

rgrds

Dave

 

[Mmathis]

True if you didnt you may have passed this on to your other koi and that why they have started flashing as they may not have been properly QT'd at the place where you got them from, now you need to take a scrape and put the slide under a microscope.Any in-action in doing this means you dont know exactly what to treat for it may very well be flukes which if thats the case you need Superverm to destroy them.Or one of a miriad of other problems caused by Parasites all which need to be identified for respective teatments.It could very well be anyone of these parasites bellow :-

Argulus x 400.jpg

whitespot.jpg

body fluke.jpg

Chilodonella.jpg

Columnaris.jpg

Costia.jpg

Epystylis.jpg

Gill fluke.jpg

Paramercium.jpg

Tricodina.jpgRgrdsDave

Gross! Are these the things that are always present in a pond, or do they have to be specifically introduced?

 

[pdpond]

ok so I just checked on the koi, one of them wasn't moving around much and showed a white color on his dorsal fin so I caught him, but couldn't get a pick by myself, he is 12" long and doesn't want to be held with one had, but I did get a look at the fin it seems to have a white milky film at the base of it,
any ideas what that could be?

I know I have a lot to learn and I do appreciate the help but trying to get me to look at something I have no idea what it is under a microscope will only end up with a smashed microscope lol nothing good will come out of it

 

[Mmathis]

Believe me the flukes you wont know about nor the gil flukes I doubt you'd notice many of the harder to see symptoms until it was too late.Yes you might catch a fungal infection, white spot, argulus etc but what of the others they are all part of the greater pictureThats why I'm trying to educate you into thinking, you know Daves right because since weve done a yearly scrape weve not lost any fish.Plus Iv'e caught this and that and stopped things in their infancy before the probllrm went out of control and the fish are looking great.We are trying to take you to the next level in fish keeping thats all nojing wromg in that is there?rgrdsDave

Dave, how do you go about taking a scraping, and do you have to do anything special with the slide (recalling college micro class)? Where are the particular places on the fish that you would want to sample? Do you sedate the fish and how? If you didn't have a microscope, could you get your samples, then take them somewhere to be looked at (wondering how "time sensitive" the specimens would be)? Seems that would be less stressful to the fish if you could take the specimens somewhere without having to transport the fish.


Pd, didn't your other fish also have this milky stuff? Wondering if it's the same thing.

 

[pdpond]

no they had white spots which I thought was possibly ich, these fish have never crossed paths or the same water at all,
the other fish cleared up once treated with a salt bath

just one of the big guys has this issue and is also sitting on the bottom of the pond with clenched fins