Losing fish daily! - with pics

Discussion in 'Illness and Disease' started by koilandtrouble, Sep 28, 2017.

  1. koilandtrouble

    koilandtrouble

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    1. We've lost 3 fish in 3 days. They just suddenly flop over and die - there's obvious infection/fungus/parasite of some sort (see pics)- but otherwise no flashing/rubbing/gasping/or otherwise abnormal behavoir. We've been keeping koi for about 2 years now, but still consider ourselves semi-novice. Not clueless, but not experts by any means.

      API Master:
      PH : 7.4
      Ammonia: -.25ppm (not perfectly yellow, not quite at the .25 color)
      Nitrate: 20ppm
      Nitrite: 0
      No salt.
      *I know, parameters not ideal - planned water change in A.M.

      1 dose each of Pimafix and Melafix, then I stopped.

      200 gal. ( a temp holding tank as we moved late July), outdoors - 2 aeration bubbler stones - bio pressure filter w/ waterfall - no plants at this time.

      So when the first one suddenly died, it was pretty darn sudden as in it appeared fine and then BAM, sideways and dead at the bottom. NO visible anomalies on it or any other koi in the pond at that time.
      Next day another one suddenly died. At that time slight skin anomalies visible on all fish in pond, but spotty.
      One dose each of Pimafix and Melafix and the next day the skin anomalies seemed drastically reduced, if not gone entirely by the naked eye at least.
      Today, another sudden die off, and visible skin issues now "covering" entire bodies of remaining fish.
      Gills were checked on thos that were dead/dying (in water) and looked red and clean.

      See attached photos (best I could do just now, at night)

      Will do water change tomorrow ASAP.

      Have Pimafix and Melafix on hand - also Herbtana and Artemis - as well as Clout - again, not currently using anything since that first P and M dose over 72 hours ago.

      Advice?
      We've had these guys for 2 years now, raised from wee little tiny runts, and now we're down to two and it's awful. Would hate to lise the big yellow guy pictured. Have a good pond store nearby I can pickup treatments etc. if anyone has suggestions.


      [​IMG] Attached Images[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    koilandtrouble, Sep 28, 2017
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  2. koilandtrouble

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    That is Ich. Treat fish immediately with salt at a dosing of 1 teaspoon per gallon of water. The entire pond must be treated. Leave salt in pond for 10 days.
     
    Meyer Jordan, Sep 28, 2017
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  3. koilandtrouble

    koilandtrouble

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    We've had an Ich outbreak before when introducing new fish, but this doesn't look like that.
    I know in the photos it looks "spotty", especially on the red-orange guy, but I think that may be my using a flashlight to try and photograph them late last night.
    In person, they don't look spotty at all, and you almost can't even see anything on them at all until very up close and the light hits them at just the right angle, and no spots or anything on their fins, at all. Whatever they do have is pretty consistently uniform across their bodies, as oppsed to random, and almost looks as though it's coming from between each scale and follows the scale patterns..?
     
    koilandtrouble, Sep 28, 2017
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  4. koilandtrouble

    koilandtrouble

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    [​IMG][/IMG] [​IMG]
     
    koilandtrouble, Sep 28, 2017
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  5. koilandtrouble

    Angel

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    trust @Meyer Jordan he doesn't give ill advice and backs it up. one of the first among the forum to admit when wrong.
     
    Angel, Sep 28, 2017
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  6. koilandtrouble

    HomerJay

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    It could be anchor worm.
     
    HomerJay, Sep 29, 2017
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  7. koilandtrouble

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Not anchor worm.
    upload_2017-9-29_10-19-24.jpeg
     
    Meyer Jordan, Sep 29, 2017
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  8. koilandtrouble

    koilandtrouble

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    Yeah definitely not anchor worm.
    Lost another fish last night, now down to one, just the yellow guy is left, and the biggest of them all.
    There was a miscommunication with the husband and he ended up treating with clout the night before, I think out of panic.
    Then Ph was really low yesterday, as in not even registering on my API Master regular or high tests in the morning and again in the afternoon. So I did a partial water change. Registered at barely the lowest on the scale today again, so I said screw it and spent the entire day today emptying and cleaning out the pond, filter, rocks, everything. We've had a nasty algae bloom this past week too so everything was all gunked up pretty bad. I only had enough salt for a treatment bath, so went ahead with that. Refilled pond, did NOT add the rocks back in, UV filter is on and well...we'll see.

    I did NOT notice anything on the remaining yellow fish today, either before or after the salt bath, which I found odd..unless the Clout knocked it off...? I know I'm not in the clear by any means though. And between the Clout and cleaning, we pretty much broke all the rules. I guess if cleaning everything ends up doing him in, then so be it. This whole week has been heartbreaking losing our entire stock. I also think we've been dealing with some Ph swings and crashes, unbeknownst to us until now, so I'm going to grab a Kh test kit today - should I grab some salt or just wait and see how this cleanout works?

    By the way, all responses have been much appreciated !
     
    koilandtrouble, Sep 29, 2017
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  9. koilandtrouble

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    I would be curious to know what transpired in/with your pond in the week(s) preceding this event.
    Contrary to what you may infer from reading on the internet, pH crashes are quite rare.

    What is the pH of your source water? What are the GH and KH levels?

    My initial reaction is that you overmedicated and mixed medications. Neither bode well for strengthening the immune system in fish.

    Is your pond aerated?
     
    Meyer Jordan, Sep 29, 2017
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  10. koilandtrouble

    koilandtrouble

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    I honestly don't know.
    The fish have been in this stock tank since winter, BUT inside a garage. So Winter/Spring inside wih probably too many fish and zero problems whatsoever, but they were indoors. We did move, but only 2 streets over so we were able to keep water and filter without having to re-cycle the tank. We even rehomed several fish before moving to lighten the load on the tank since we aren't able to dig a new pond right away. And these guys have been outside now since July, no probs until this week.
    Parameters all reading well in recent weeks, although I was really busy last week and wasn't checking regularly like I usually do.
    No new fish. Nothing added to water. I dosed ONE time each of Pimafix/Melafix for one day after first fish died, then nothing for a few days and a partial water change a few days after-another fish died- then my husband did the Clout - and another died last night.

    I know Ph crashes are not common - is there another reason why my Ph would be so low, even after a partial (25%) water change?

    Tap water reads between 7.2-7.4 straight out of tap. Never had these low Ph readings over past 2 years, either in stock tank or when fish were in in-ground large pond.

    Pressure bio filter with UV - 2 aeration stones - and filter pours out via 2 long home made PVC (?) With holes drilled...so like 20 tiny waterfalls.

    I need to run out tonight for Kh and Gh kit.

    Any ideas why?
     
    koilandtrouble, Sep 29, 2017
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  11. koilandtrouble

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Tell me more about the algae bloom (extent and any action taken i.e. algaecides).

    Also what have been the water temperatures in this tank lately?
     
    Meyer Jordan, Sep 29, 2017
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  12. koilandtrouble

    koilandtrouble

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    I'm not super familiar with my algae, but it was stringy (so string algae?) and came on fairly quickly over the last 2, maybe 2.5 weeks, sticking to sides, gravel, even the raised PVC pipe falls, with large chunks sometimes floating freely. Up until 2 days ago it has been unseasonably hot (and sunny) for a solid 2 weeks. Tank gets good amount of direct sun throughout the day.
    No algaecides used, I mostly just scraped it from the sides a few times and netted it out, and made sure it wasn't taking over the pump and air stones and stuff.. But that's it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
    koilandtrouble, Sep 29, 2017
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  13. koilandtrouble

    Greenbrier Lulu

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    So sorry for the loss of your fish. I know the heartbreak. I'm new on here too and wish I had found this site before now. Lots of good info from experienced pond owners. My husband accidentally put too much Algafix in the pond last weekend to clear green color/algae. We've lost two fish and put in aerator this week. No more Algafix! The pond has been clear and looks great. I've seen two fish so hopefully my other one is still alive too. Best of luck to you...
     
    Greenbrier Lulu, Sep 30, 2017
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  14. koilandtrouble

    koilandtrouble

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    It's Sunday and...although I feel like now I might jinx it...he's still alive :cautious: and I don't see anything on his skin. Fingers crossed I guess?
     
    koilandtrouble, Oct 2, 2017
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  15. koilandtrouble

    Mmathis TurtleMommy

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    How many fish total and how big are they — in 200 gal holding pond, you say?
     
    Mmathis, Oct 2, 2017
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  16. koilandtrouble

    koilandtrouble

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    Well it's been 1 week and he appears to be doing really well. Eating normal, finally, and he's quite friendly and outgoing now that he's all by his lonesome. Water parameters are reading good, and his skin looks great.
    I'm sad that we lost all of the others, but this guy was always my favorite, so I'm happy he made it, and turns out he has such a little personality! which wasn't apparent for the past year with the other fish who were quite shy.
    Pardon the poor quality photo. Wasn't expecting him to pop up to say hello when he did!
     

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    koilandtrouble, Oct 7, 2017
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