Losing my first koi.

Discussion in 'Illness and Disease' started by Telion, Jul 19, 2018.

  1. Telion

    Telion

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    Its been a bit of a sad but ironic night. I am pretty sure we are going to lose one of our koi for the first time tonight.the ironic part is that it was one of the ones I initially didn't want but he (or she) was thrown in as part of a package deal.

    Looks like a parasite situation. It isolated itself and was not schooling. Sti ate though. But it has spots on its stomach that look like a result of a parasite. It didn't seem to be doing much flashing but I can see a lot of the wounds either caused by flashing.

    Action taken

    Step 1. Make the cardinal mistake and not read here first and medicate the whole pond.

    Step 2. Isolate the fish
    Step 3. Medicate the one si*with melafix and
    Step 4 add recommended amount of salt.
    Step 5 brush his Go
    20180718_214214.jpg
     
    Telion, Jul 19, 2018
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  2. Telion

    RobAmy

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    Sorry for the troubles, did it survive the night?
     
    RobAmy, Jul 19, 2018
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  3. Telion

    carolinaguy

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    We feel your loss, but don’t take it too hard. Your fish are not done surprising you with fish loss. Koi keeping is better than goat keeping. Goats are far more creative in figuring out how to die. We have friends who show goats (yes they do that) and have shared their frustration.

    So you must, I repeat, must scrape and scope this fish. If you are in a club, the koi health advisor or equivalent can help. If they are trained they can perform a necropsy. You may find nothing, and even that result is valuable data.

    If you have rocks in your pond on the bottom, check them for sharp edges. Rocks should be smoothed river rocks to prevent mechanical wounds, especially ventral wounds that open pathways to abdominal cavities. The dangerous fact about ventral wounds is that they usually go undetected for so long that the fish becomes too sick for intervention. The wounds may have begun as mechanical penetrations.

    It’s tough to sort out a dead fish, so any photographic interpretation is even harder, but the fukurin, the skin between the scales looks curiously raised. If the fish is scoped, the parasites, if they are the cause, are dead or gone. Parasites only live in association with live fish and die or leave after a fish death. That means your other fish need to be scraped and scoped. I have identified dead gill flukes from a gill clip off a dead koi. Chances are that opportunistic bacteria are still present but they require gram staining to see. When we look for parasites, we use a wet mount and look for movement of live organisms.

    So your work to figure this death out is not done.
     
    carolinaguy, Jul 19, 2018
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  4. Telion

    Somethin' Fishy

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    So sorry to hear about the loss @Telion. :(

    There are just so many possibilities as to the cause of this death. I can't tell from the picture whether it was parasites or not. It's like Carolinaguy said, as far as examining it further... But, it is possible, that the stress of being caught and introduced to your new pond, made this fish a great deal more susceptible to just about anything. As you already know, keep tabs on that water quality and keep a close eye on everybody, since that cycle is not yet complete. Keeping in mind, that water temperature, pH, and water movement, all have a hand in how quickly or slowly the bacteria colonize and complete the cycle. Check your ammonia level, as "ammonia burn" can appear quite similar.

    I have no suggestions as far as the meds and salt added to the whole pond....:unsure:

    Wishing you the best of luck though. Stay calm and pond on!
     
    Somethin' Fishy, Jul 19, 2018
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  5. Telion

    sissy sissy

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    sorry to hear and sad to say it can happen to any of us
     
    sissy, Jul 19, 2018
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  6. Telion

    Telion

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    Unfortunately, I am not sure I stayed up with it till about 12am but having to get up at 5am I had to leave it in quarintine with medication and air and I didn't want to start my day by going out to see it passed. My wife will be home from work well before me and will see for me. I will need to see what my koi club options are in the area but that is excellent advice. We didn't salt the pond though. But I did put Melafix in it and if my stress coat would get her I will be putting more of that in there. True we are very fortunate so far that this was our only loss so far with the transporting and changing conditions. Thank you everyone. I will keep you posted.

    Couple clarifications

    4. Add recommended amount of salt to the quarantine container.

    5. Brush the body of the fish with a salt paste
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
    Telion, Jul 19, 2018
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  7. Telion

    Tula

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    This koi looks like it has an internal bacterial infection to me. HOW it got it is variable, parasites or wound allowing bacteria to enter the fish, or water quality issues.

    Here is an interesting article about Melafix from a a credible source.

    http://www.koivet.com/a_melaleuca_tea_tree_oil_koi_wounds_healing.html

    I'm glad you're able to treat this koi in a small tank, verses having to treat the entire pond at this time. You may have already mentioned this, but do you have an arisen going in the isolation tub?

    I agree with @carolinaguy about reaching out to a local koi club, they can be a wealth of information and are generally interested in helping.
     
    Tula, Jul 19, 2018
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  8. Telion

    Tara

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    hope it gets better.
     
    Tara, Jul 19, 2018
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  9. Telion

    Telion

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    My wife has let me know that it did not make it. I didn't think that it would. But the other fish are doing fine. We will try to get ththe needed testing done as soon as I get off work.
     
    Telion, Jul 19, 2018
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  10. Telion

    Tula

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    Very sorry :( I'm glad to hear the others are doing well.
     
    Tula, Jul 19, 2018
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  11. Telion

    j.w I Love my Goldies

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    So sorry you lost your first koi. Hope that is the end of whatever was wrong so it does not pass on to other fish.
     
    j.w, Jul 19, 2018
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  12. Telion

    Lisak1

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    :cry:
     
    Lisak1, Jul 19, 2018
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  13. Telion

    RobAmy

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    Thanks for the update. Sorry for the loss.
     
    RobAmy, Jul 19, 2018
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  14. Telion

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    Darn, sorry to hear
     
    addy1, Jul 19, 2018
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  15. Telion

    Gemma

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    Sorry you lost a fish, we all feel your pain! :(
     
    Gemma, Jul 20, 2018
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  16. Telion

    ShawnInfirmity

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    Sorry about your loss @Telion and I hope the rest of your gorgeous fish are doing well!
     
    ShawnInfirmity, Jul 20, 2018
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  17. Telion

    Telion

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    Not out of the woods yet seems to be three separate issues going on one has an abscess, two have some minor bruising and I am having a hard time finding a local expert that is not trying to push mechanical filtration systems or sell me products unrelated to treating my poor fish. I added 64oz of stress coat and I will be salt dipping and brushing the ones that are noticeably not well.
     
    Telion, Jul 21, 2018
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  18. Telion

    Lisak1

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    I was going to mention something similar when the suggestion was made to find an "expert". Many of those so called experts are just that - sales people. Not that I am opposed to people selling things, but I don't think it will help. And many koi experts will tell you that your pond is built wrong and that's the problem.

    Hang in there - I don't want to say you expected this, but you kind of did anticipate that it might happen. Doesn't make it any easier, I know. I wonder if these injuries are related to being caught and moved - koi can do a lot of damage to themselves when they are stressed.
     
    Lisak1, Jul 21, 2018
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  19. Telion

    Tara

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    Hello. Hope all is well with your pond. How are you're lovely fish, I do hope they are doing good, and settled in.
     
    Tara, Jul 22, 2018
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  20. Telion

    carolinaguy

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    This observation by Lisak1 is very astute. Vendors are not koi experts. They are vendors who may know something that may be true. Sometimes that can be said of veternarians too.

    With that opinion based on experiences, the pond’s construction, the Mechanicals, and the cleaning schedule may be contributory. A wound can be mechanically inflicted or can be parasite induced. Usually in a short time parasitic infections afflict one or two fish to the point of a lesion and not a group. Environmental causes affect a larger group more quickly. A ground water intrusion for example can impact everyone simultaneously. You have several fish involved, but the length of time involved is unclear. A club’s koi health advisor is neutral and is not permitted to charge for services. That may be a way of sorting this out.

    The conclusion that the ventral wound is parasitic is premature. You need a wet mount scraping and possibly a gill clip to know.
     
    carolinaguy, Jul 22, 2018
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