Marine Sea salt in koi pond/Benifcial bacteria

[gouldianguy68]

I have a 12,500 Gal pond, in WI. I added 62# of Instant ocean Marine salt to my pond. Treatment would than be 1 cup of salt per 100gal. Last Tues I got 20 new butterfly koi, and this Tues today, I got 20 reg finned koi, they are approx 6-7" long. They are now with 100 Comet Goldfish, approx 3' long , I have a 3/4 horse air max diffusers x2, and a single air pump, and diffusers in Lilly pads, so 3 seperate diffusers are 8" around. Pump is actually for 1-3 acre lakes/ponds, so in 12,500 gal, there getting alot of air, plus a large waterfalls, falla 4.5' to pond surface and 7 smaller falls in stream beds into pond, pond is 36' long x23w at widest point, deepest area is 4.5' deep (where the 2 largest diffusers are) 3rd air diffusers is in about 2.5' water., I have 2 bio falls that feed large water falls, and the other feeds the 2 stream beds. Because winter is coming soon, and my New koi are far behind there "fat" reserves for winter, I been feeding them about 4 times per day to pack weight on them for the winter "Shut down". Today I noticed that last week's new butterfly koi were acting strange, coming to shore line and swimming slow, and gasping for air. But when touched, would swim fast away back to deep water, just a few were doing this, I was wondering if because I added the Marine salt to pond, that it may have upset my beneficial bacteria colonies? I have rocked walls, and 4" pea Gravel on the bottom, several clumps of Iris, and a large area of water Lillie's. I clean the filter pads about every 7 days, because of an unknown erosion soil issue, that got into the pond, so I'm useing the reg 2" thick filter pads, as well as 15 fine filter pads in each box, to try and get dirt out of water, the fine pads are a bit time consuming to clean, but the water coming out looks like coffee!! In 24hrs I noticed a huge difference!! Water was crystal clear
I'm thinking I have an ammonia SPIKE!!? From feeding fish so much,? And that's why there acting so weird I don't want to do a water change, because I added the very pricy $$ Marine salt for there benefits . I don't have a water test kit yet, so can't offer you any parameters on water quality . I also have 2 large nylon bags of activated charcoal, that I change every 4 weeks. But I need a quick fix fast, for what I bieleve is my fault on the ammonia levels, I added a full gallon of beneficial bacteria today, I'm almost afraid for sunrise, cause I might have a few dead koi,? Laying on there side tonight, breathing ok, touch them, swim away fast and normal, but 5-10 min later, back to shallow areas, laying sideways, or gasping for air,? There is way more than enough 02 in pond, it's way OVER AERATION if anything, I ordered ammonia neutral liq, but won't be here till Friday. Does the salt mess with beneficial bacteria at my dosage that much?

 

[gouldianguy68]

Thankyou

 

[j.w]

I myself don't use salt, never have. I have goldfish only. I don't put gravel or anything on the bottom of my pond either. I had gravel in a small bathtub pond at one time and the gravel collected all the scum and muck and made that pond useless for life. I stick w/a bare bottom pond now. Easier for me to keep clean, or for my filter to keep clean actually. If too much muck accumulates it's easier to just net it out w/no gravel or rocks. Some here do have rocks on the bottom of their ponds, not sure how they keep things right tho. I'll let them tell you.

 

[j.w]

Oh and

@gouldianguy68

 

[WaterGardener]

Have you tested the water? Please get liquid type tests if you don't have them and post the results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate KH and pH. There is no way to guess what is going on without testing.

There is no need to use salt. You have fresh water fish and the pond doesn't need salt. The only time it is recommended is when you have a nitrite spike, but there are other ways to deal with that.

Also, you have added way too many fish for the size of your pond. If you have enough filtration you can get away with it as long as they are very small. But they will quickly outgrow your system.

 

[Mmathis]

Hello and welcome!

Just curious, but why did you add 62# of salt?

 

[Stephen Noble]

Dumping 40 large fish at one time into any closed system (pond) will disrupt the balance. And if I calculate correctly, the salt added has made your freshwater pond slightly brackish. None of those fishes are brackish water species. I would test your water parameters as soon as possible. Then begin removing the salt. At this point, I wouldn't worry about the cost of the salt. I would worry about the well-being of your fish. Please let us know what your water test readings are and we can try to assist. What state do you live in? Welcome to the forum!

 

[gouldianguy68]

Have you tested the water? Please get liquid type tests if you don't have them and post the results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate KH and pH. There is no way to guess what is going on without testing.

There is no need to use salt. You have fresh water fish and the pond doesn't need salt. The only time it is recommended is when you have a nitrite spike, but there are other ways to deal with that.

Also, you have added way too many fish for the size of your pond. If you have enough filtration you can get away with it as long as they are very small. But they will quickly outgrow your system.

 

[gouldianguy68]

Water tested absolutely PERFECT!! And the koi are fine today? There all swimming around like normal. And veriously hungry. Thanks for everyone input.

 

[gouldianguy68]

Dumping 40 large fish at one time into any closed system (pond) will disrupt the balance. And if I calculate correctly, the salt added has made your freshwater pond slightly brackish. None of those fishes are brackish water species. I would test your water parameters as soon as possible. Then begin removing the salt. At this point, I wouldn't worry about the cost of the salt. I would worry about the well-being of your fish. Please let us know what your water test readings are and we can try to assist. What state do you live in? Welcome to the forum!

Thankyou, water tested absolutely Perfect, the pond is well established, fish weren't dumped in at once, was 3 weeks apart 20 , Than 20 this week, supplier said it was probably just new koi/ponds syndrome. They all absolutely fine today, eating like crazy. Koi supplier, says they keep salt level same parameters as me, so guess the fish comfortable. Thankyou everyone.

 

[gouldianguy68]

I myself don't use salt, never have. I have goldfish only. I don't put gravel or anything on the bottom of my pond either. I had gravel in a small bathtub pond at one time and the gravel collected all the scum and muck and made that pond useless for life. I stick w/a bare bottom pond now. Easier for me to keep clean, or for my filter to keep clean actually. If too much muck accumulates it's easier to just net it out w/no gravel or rocks. Some here do have rocks on the bottom of their ponds, not sure how they keep things right tho. I'll let them tell you.

The reason for salt is I have alot of Imported Butterfly Koi, with the long fins and tails, my koi supplier said the are very genetically altered fish, and a bit weaker immune systems than other koi, so they keep them in a salt water solution 1 cup sea salt per 100gal pond water, so I matched that with my 12,500 gal, also they said it helps outside with pond parasites
The fish are doing GREAT, and water tested absolutely perfect. I also use alot of beneficial bacteria, to help with fish load on pond, cause I clean filters every 7-10 days
Thankyou everyone for your help.

 

[WaterGardener]

Salt was frequently recommended years ago, but is rarely used these days. Your supplier seems to be out of date with that approach. Salt was used to such an extent that the parasites it was supposed to deter are now immune to it.

Your pond, your fish. Everyone has their own way of doing things, but it seems like a waste of money to me.

The bacteria sold in pet stores is not the type you need for the filtration system. The type you need won't survive being sealed in a bottle, shipped to a store and put on a shelf.

You can buy the right bacteria, but it has to be shipped overnight and is only available from 2 dealers in this country that I am aware of. So it's expensive.

In an established pond you should have plenty of bacteria to handle the fish load, unless of course, it is greatly overstocked and the pond lacks the filtration it needs. And you can't have extra beneficial bacteria. The colony will only grow to the size needed and more than that will die off for lack of food (the ammonia being produced in the pond).

There is also no need to try to add more bacteria when adding more fish. With an established colony and the right conditions of sufficient oxygen, hospitable water temperature, enough food (ammonia), and enough surface area for the bacteria to grow on, that existing beneficial bacteria can double in 24 hours. It won't take iong for it to catch up to the increased needs.

Save yourself some money and stop adding salt and bacteria.

 

[Lisak1]

Good advice coming your way here but it’s up to you whether you choose to adopt it or not. Koi suppliers are frequently the worst source of advice - at least judging by the experience of many here.

I’m assuming dedicated koi pond - no plants.

 

[Mmathis]

Somewhere along the way, I think I got lost….and forgot what your original question was. Sorry. But am intrigued by your pond — please post some pics for us!

Please post actual number results of your water tests. “Absolutely perfect” doesn’t give us any information.

 

[gouldianguy68]

Somewhere along the way, I think I got lost….and forgot what your original question was. Sorry. But am intrigued by your pond — please post some pics for us!

Please post actual number results of your water tests. “Absolutely perfect” doesn’t give us any information.

Ok, the original question really was my concern ,if adding salt to a pond causes the beneficial bacteria harm? Because I had some koi "Acting like an Ammonia spike? Because I live in WI, I always try to pack weight on my fish for the long Winters Hybranation. So I'm feeding 4 times a day like I always have in the fall, for 20 years. I tested the water at local fish store, they showed me the results and said "Honestly Troy, we have never seen anyone's pond water test this fantastic!! I was relieved, not an ammonia spike, or PH, or Hardness, Nothing was wrong. So I was bewildered why 3 koi would lay on there side, and I touch them, and they swam away to deep water like nothing was wrong? Than 10 min later back to shallow water laying down? Weird? Today all 3 of them are perfectly fine, swimming around like nothing happened? I was in a panic mode when I asked this group. As far as salt goes? I dunno what to say about it except I bought 40 new koi from 2 different well known koi farms here in the USA. They both told me they keep all there "Stock' for sale koi at 3ppm sea salt
So I wanted the fish to be in the same water there used to, to I added there recommended amount which is 1 cup per 100 gal water, I have to say this, my 100 resident Goldfish, seem to absolutely love this added to the water, they are much more lively, and seem happier? If you can tell that in a fish? I'm pretty attached to my "wet pets" it seems they are very happy, Yes, I do have plants, Lillie's pads, iris clumps, I was told some varieties may or may not be affected at that salt level. I haven't noticed any difference in any plants yet. The pond is 12,500 gal, 32- long x 23w at widest point. I clean my filter pads every 7-10 days, because I had soil erosion on the back wall.that I wasn't aware off, there is 4" pea gravel on bottom, Pond is 25yrs old, My dad and I built it, plumbing is aquascape, bio falls ,skimmer X2 ea. Gravel was put in before we new about "gravel" maintenance!! 25yrs ago, there is way to much for me to physically get it out. So it stays. (Unless any of you will volunteer to help remove it?)
Ok,back on topic, So, the soil in pond, it was drained, I washed gravel for 7 days, pumped out mud water, after 7 days I stopped, had enough!! I said what's left will settle out in filter pads, so I bought those fine pads off of FB for aquariums!! There not that big like 12"x18" i think, so I have 15 pads on top of each of my 2 2" thick reg pond pads. This is the truth!! After 24hrs the water was CLEAR!! No more suspended soils!! The pads work AWSOME for polishing the water, cleaning them is a bit time consuming, hose set on "Jet' and spray off both sides twice until they white and blue again, back into filter, also there is 75# of activated charcoal in filter boxes (finally found it in bulk way CHEAPER!! Works FANTASTIC!! I also use beneficial bacteria designed for real lakes and real earthen ponds, so it super charged. I have used this product for last 15 years, it's amazing what it does!! Buy it from local home and garden store. Bacteria is stabilized in liq form, when added to water it's cloudy for 8-10 min, than dissappear into gravel, and rocks doing it's colonizing thing, although I was told that I'm wasting my money, it works for me very very well, and is available in large gallon cont. So, I'm sorry if I confused everyone? That wasn't my intention at all. And an open forum to talk about all our crazy experiences and ideas is great!! Some use salt, some do not, some use bacteria, some do not, some wouldn't clean the fine pads I have, some would? All in all, I learned alot from everyone THANKYOU! I APPRECIATE THAT! I do have some pics I can post, net over pond is just temporary for fall leaves, and I'm in the blue heron migration path!! So I net the pond in spring and fall, or it would be a sushi buffet, I have.to protect them, and it almost gets 99% of the leaves so i don't have huge organic build up in the spring