Michey1st's Maryland Pond Upgrade Thread

[michey1st]

We are hoping to break ground on our "new and improved" pond in the DC burbs this summer, but before that happens, it's time to plan!!!!!

First off, here is where we are today (photo taken from our 2nd story deck):

My current setup is around 600 or so gallons and built on a slope (hence the need for all the rock retaining walls. At the top is a bog, then the middle pond for resident frogs and lilies, and finally, the lower pond, where my fish are located. All are connected via waterfalls. I keep just goldies and shubbies. No plans for koi.

I'm using a Laguna 2900 pump that feeds the gravel bog via buried PVC pipe. My pump is woefully overpowered (done so on purpose because I knew the upgrade was in my future) and plan to reuse the same pump after the upgrade.

Problems with this current setup:
1. I have evaporation issues, presumably because of the 2 waterfalls.
2. By expanding the lower pond, I fear the bog in its current state will be undersized. Plus, bog plants are fun, and I want MORE!!!

So, now it's time to upgrade Here's what i'm thinking:

Of course, actual dimensions are approximate but I figured the end size of the lower pond will be around 10 x 10 by 2-3 feet deep (subject to change as digging progresses =). The back wall will have to be bermed up with rocks due the the slope - I figure it will end up being somewhere around 1 foot higher on the back. I have tons of rocks, so that's not a problem. This part of the build should be fairly straightforward, except I am at a loss as to whether I should include a skimmer and if so, where it should go. I am terrified of cutting my liner, but I do have trees edging my property, so it would be a good idea, but I'm skurd! Is it something I can retrofit in at a later time? Or are there decent options that do not involve cutting the liner?

Other questions come into play with what to do with the new, expanded bog. I was thinking of lowering the current bog to roughly ground level (making sure to account for runoff), then make the middle pond shallower (with the dirt we will dig up from the lower pond excavation) so the entire bog is somewhere between 12 and 18 inches deep.

With this setup, would it be best to keep the bog distribution pipe where it currently is (across the short end), forcing the water to travel the long length through the gravel and plants (not sure if this would create any dead spaces)? Or should the pipe run the full length of the new bog?

The much easier alternative, of course, is to just keep the upper bog and waterfall as is, fill the middle pond with gravel and give it it's own PVC distribution line. But then, the current bog will waterfall into the gravel and the middle bog area will be around 20-24 inches deep - will this mess up the mechanics of bog filtration at all? I do suspect the evaporation won't be quite as annoying with a larger lower pond (right now, since the lower pond is so small and shallow, I have to fill 10-15 gallons every 4-5 days depending on the temps to keep my pump properly submerged).

We don't plan on working on the revamped bog this year -- during construction of the lower pond, we plan on using the middle pond to hold the fish -- so there's still time to decide. I guess i'm just looking to work towards the best solution.

Your thoughts are appreciated!

Kindest regards,
Michele

 

[michey1st]

I should also mention, another idea that is still a contender is to keep the bog and middle pond as is, and build in a THIRD waterfall with some sort of filter box setup thingy in the berm of the lower pond. That waterfall will be primely visible both from the deck and the patio, which will be nice, but it won't really satisfy my itch for more bog plants (which, I THINK I can get over).

Keeping the middle pond intact, will keep the frogs and lilies much happier without fish to contend with. I know next to nothing about waterfall filters, though and then there's that pesky evaporation problem to contend with ...

 

[ZmanArt007]

Personally I like the middle and lower pond idea. Having three levels seems appealing to me. I guess if you have evaporation issues it makes sense to change it though. However, if you didn't want to change it, you could still expand the bottom pond and add a bog area to it, like a planted beach of sorts.



That's what I would do if you were less concerned with evaporation and more concerned with expanding both your bog and pond.

 

[michey1st]

I batted the idea of a second bog around, but at the time I discounted it because I didn't want to deal with the mechanics of the different retaining walls, linked waterfall and associated piping on the slope of my yard. I never even considered the "planted beach" idea, though, and I really like it! That area is the full sun spot of my yard and would make some pretty flowers very, very happy!

With this scenario, the water wouldn't actually need to be pumped through, it would just flow back and forth through some sort of permeable surface, correct? Can I just user regular old drystacked wallstone to make that barrier, you think?

 

[ZmanArt007]

I don't actually have a bog myself so I'm not sure on the construction and mechanics of it, but I think it would still be a good idea to have some water movement in the planted bog. Since water movement is supposed to be slow, you could just place a low GPH pump near the outer edge of the bog, and have it return the water to the pond via fountain or spitter. A small pump like that would be relatively cheap, and since it's not pumping back up to the waterfall, there's very little work that has to go into dealing with hoses and pipes. The tubing could just be buried right in the bog.

 

[pugle1]

I like the idea of the "planted beach / bog" as well. Too for evaporation, there is always drip irrigation. I'm toying with a DIY version of one myself right now to combat my evaporation issues. The slow flow of new water won't create chlorine issues as the amount added per hour is really low. My experiments with the DIY irrigation had given me a flow of about 1.5 to 2 GPH. I figure I need about 2 GPH to counter my water loss. Good luck with your expansion, and I like what you have already.... looks great.

 

[michey1st]

Thanks Zman and Pugle!

As far as the planted beach/bog area goes, here's what I'm thinking. I want to try to avoid using a second pump, since my current pump has plenty of juice to spare. I would build the pond with a (3-4 feet wide, 12 inch deep shelf that runs the entire back edge of the pond. Because of my slope, the bottom of the bog can actually be the top of the ground -- less digging = BONUS). On the pond side of the ledge, I would build a permeable wall of drystacked wallstone, lay some perforated PVC pipe the entire length of the bog, and split the output from my pump to plug in to this PVC. The water will then be forced into the bog area to provide movement. With this scenario, the water isn't expelled from the bog through a waterfall since the top of the bog will be level with the rest of the pond, but I figure the water will still be pushed out through the rock wall as new water comes in from the piping. I wonder if I can also rig up some kind of filter material to go between the dry stacked ledge and the gravel in the bog to try and build a home for some biological filtration? (How I would do that, I have no clue, just thinking out loud, lol).

This is a bit different than your typical bog setup (and what i'm used to), so interested to hear from folks about whether it seems feasible. While it's fairly straightforward to just plunk gravel into a shallow area for plants to thrive, I would still like to do what I can to promote filtering, rather than to just have a plantable area.

Pugle, I would DEFINITELY like more details of your drip irrigation system -- do you have a thread about it? I'm personally a bit nervous to keep the tap on constantly, even with a restricted flow, for fear of springing a leak while I'm not home and driving up the water bill, but I'd still love to hear your details! It's funny. Before the pond, I never paid much heed to the water bill as it was usually small, but now that I have to keep filling, i'm keenly aware of the price of water.

 

[pugle1]

Thanks Zman and Pugle!

Pugle, I would DEFINITELY like more details of your drip irrigation system -- do you have a thread about it? I'm personally a bit nervous to keep the tap on constantly, even with a restricted flow, for fear of springing a leak while I'm not home and driving up the water bill, but I'd still love to hear your details! It's funny. Before the pond, I never paid much heed to the water bill as it was usually small, but now that I have to keep filling, i'm keenly aware of the price of water.

Hi michey, There are drip irrigation kits you can buy, but I just wanted to DIY one. I haven't got it hooked up yet as I just started experimenting with flow rates (GPH). My experimental set up is just simply a Stanley Y connector with shut-off valves built in

and a simple Gardena quick-connect male fitting with a piece of clear vinyl hose stuck into the end of it. (hose is approx 3/8 in and is a very tight fit into the end of the Gardena fitting). I just stuck the other end of the hose into a 2 gal bucket and turned on the valve for that side of the Stanley connector to time the flow. Just cracking the valve, I was able to get the flow from about 1 GPH to about 2.5 GPH. I need to get a longer piece of hose though as I don't have enough to reach the top of the pond. hope that helps.

 

[michey1st]

That DEFINITELY helps, thanks a ton! We took a trip to the Depot today and got a very similar splitter like yours. For now, it is just to keep a regular hose to the backside of the pond for when we need to refill -- now it can permanently stay nearly out of site AND we can still water plants using the other hose. It's a baby step, towards drip irrigation, but a step none-the-less! ;-)

 

[addy1]

Looking good, the only issue I see with a membrane, filter material is that is will clog up if too fine. There are bogs that have permeable walls between them and the pond. If you put something there make it a large weave. imho

 

[michey1st]

Thanks, Addy!

How crazy do you think it would be to actually have my pump in a permeable box (with small holes to keep the pea gravel out), buried in the pea gravel in the bog? Since the bog won't be raised, it should be able to pull water in from the pond proper, through the stacked stone dividing wall, through the gravel and then I can split the output to my existing bog and potentially to a third waterfall box with some sort of biological filtration setup inside. (This is very similar to ZMan's suggestion up above)

My pump is 2900 GPH -- will it be able to draw sufficient water through the gravel, you think? I don't want to burn the poor thing out, but at the same time, having the pump off to the side, easily accessible, and out of the way of the fish is VERY intriguing.

 

[pugle1]

Ok, michey, I just got an extended piece of that clear vinyl hose that can reach the pond. With that splitter just barely cracked open I have a nice steady trickle flow of about 1 gallon per hour. The valves on that Stanley splitter are nice and tight, so they seem to stick well to where you set them. On my bog, I have a high level water mark. This evening and tomorrow are the first 24 hours with no rain forecast, so I'm going to keep a close eye on whether the level drops, maintains or overflows. I'll keep you posted. Sorry I can't offer advice on the bog and filter as I'm still trying to figure out exactly what I want to try on mine. Addy's go some great advice.

 

[michey1st]

Phew! Resurrecting this thread from last year because we REALLY ARE going to be expanding our lower pond this year! Right now, the existing pond/bog is in various stages of waking up, and we are going to give the toads a chance to do their egg thang, grow up and move out. So, we will start construction probably in July.

As a reminder, here is where we are right now (photo is from last summer, so it's not nearly as lush and green right now:

Here's the current expansion plan:

We are leaving the current bog and middle pond as is. That is going to remain a frog and lily habitat. All new construction will focus on making the lower pond bigger and deeper. If we do a skimmer, it will be an in-pond one (i'm scared to cut the liner, lol). so the shape of that part may change to accommodate a niche of some sort. We haven't really figured out exact dimensions yet (although bigger is better, of course). Want to keep the liner to a max of 20 x 20 to keep cost down), and the new waterfall filter may not be done this year (might just go with a spitter of some sort for the short term).

So, i'll be trolling around and asking questions over the coming weeks. For starters, I need to think about pond overflow (which will likely be somewhere along the top edge, but not where the waterfall is. I was thinking of some kind of dry creek bed, perhaps with a little wooden bridge that spans it for aesthetics (at the very top of the photo, we are installing a flower bed that spans along the back of the yard, so this dry creek bed will in essence connect the ponds to the flower beds with a walking path going over it.

So, how do you guys handle your overflow? I'm curious about the mechanics of it from inside the pond, as well as in the surrounding landscape.

Note that we have a pretty steep drop-off to the yard (45 degree downward slope) at the back of our property and are battling erosion issues in the corner. So, the flowerbed I previously spoke of will be a catch to keep and slow water until it can be absorbed by the ground. Sort of like a rain garden, but technically different as our clay didn't pass drainage requirements mandated by the county.

Anywho, happy to hear your thoughts about pretty much anything with this proposed setup!

Kindest regards,
Michele

 

[tbendl]

I am so excited for you guys!! It looks wonderful and I hope you post lost of pictures of the progress. I didn't handle my overflow, it just leaks out and trickles down the yard. I got very lucky that it didn't trickle toward the house. I'm sure you'll get some feedback from those who have dealt with that. Best of luck!

 

[michey1st]

Thank you! We are super excited to get started... kinda hoping the toads don't end up consummating so we can get started early =D