Mystery fish death with ph swings

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I lost a fish today which was very sad, and I need advice on what I could do/done differently to avoid this for my other fish. (7 other fish between 4-6")

This goldfish was young, about 3 inches, and I had it between 1-2 months; it has not grown unlike some of my others. It had never been as sociable with the other fish but at first it would sometimes hang out with one at a time, however it spent more and more time alone and less time eating. I sometimes saw the biggest fish chasing it around a bit and then it would hang out alone more, but it did not seem to be overly bullied, it just seemed to spend increasing time by itself. This past week it was not only alone but listless, hanging in one area or another for long periods of time near the top, instead of cruising along eating algae constantly like the others. If it was startled though it would swim away quickly. I looked at it closely and could not find any visual oddities of any kind.

I have done water testing (api drop kit) and the only thing problematic had been ph swings. The pH has gradually climbed higher since initial pond install in April. When I first put fish in it (in May) it was around 7.5. Lately when I test it in the late afternoon/evening it is usually around 8.4, however, earlier in the day it is lower and some days even in the evening it will be way lower, for example a couple weeks ago it dropped as low as 6.8. The ph of my well water at the tap is 6.4 and it also rains frequently, I also top off the pond if it drops about an inch from heat (last time was about a week ago). I had not added anything to intentionally change to ph previously, but I understand the day/night swings can have to do with the amount of plant life (which has gradually been increasing) in the pond, and the gh and kh levels. So I recently got a kit to test gh/kh (2 days ago) and they were quite low: Kh 3 drops/53.7 and gh 4 drops/71.6.

As all other water tests were good, I thought the ph swings might be stressing this fish too much and last night I added 1lb baking soda and 8 oz epsom salts to try to raise the gh and kh a bit and help stabilize the ph swings (recommendations were to add more than that but I wanted to go slow). My intention was also to add some oyster shells to further help the kh, and some calcium chloride to further help the gh, both to further stabilize ph, but I haven't bought those yet. However this evening I found the stressed fish dead, and looked like it had been dead for more than a few hours (I was not able to check earlier today, but I saw it yesterday afternoon). Of course my concern is that I pushed it over the edge, and I don't know what I should have done instead.

Here are the current stats:
Pond size approx 2000 gallons
Kh: 5 drops/89.5 (up some)
Gh: 5 drops/89.5 (up some)
Ph: 8.4 (same as 2 days ago at this time, but it fluctuates a lot)
Phosphate, ammonia, nitrite: 0ppm nitrate 5ppm.

What did I do wrong?
 
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I had been keeping a close eye on this fish lately, and aside from the isolated behavior and lately listlessness (not moving around as much) it didn't have any other signs I could determine of illness:
Did not sit on the bottom. No clamped fins. It swam slowly in place but dived or swam rapidly away if disturbed. It would stay in one area for long times, but it wasn't always the same part of the pond. It did not hide like it was trying to get away from the other fish, just hung out. No gulping at surface nor apparent labored breathing (it did occasionally eat things at the surface before this, but also spent time previously eating at the bottom), nothing unusual stuck to scales or scale appearance, color vibrant orange as it has been consistently. Within the last few days it did not seem to eat much. None of my fish are interested in food I put in the pond, they eat algae and little worms that live in the pond, however it wasn't doing this lately either. Earlier it was still moving along eating at times, but by itself usually away from the other fish.
 
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Sorry to read about your goldfish. I am a newbie and can’t offer any ideas but am sure others with a lot of fish expertise will chime in. I would watch your others closely in hopes you can prevent another.
 

cas

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KH and GH ares what keep the PH stable. Carbonate hardness (KH) will prevent low PH (PH crash) and Calcium hardness (part of GH) will prevent high PH. I like to keep both above 100.

KH can decrease over time.
The biological forces (biological filter and plants) in the pond are constantly using up the KH. KH is consumed by the biofilter bacteria, in converting ammonia to nitrite to nitrate. The greater the fish load, the greater the Ammonia production, the greater the reduction of KH.
To increase KH Mix baking soda in a bucket of pond water before adding to the pond. Increase level slowly if the PH is below 8.3. Do not want to increase the KH more than 20 ppm within a 24 hour period. ½ cup baking soda in 1,000 gallons will increase KH by 20 ppm. (1 drop using the test kits)

If the pH is going above about 8.5, increase the GH to 100. This will help maintain the PH in the 8.2 – 8.4 range. The simplest way of raising the GH of water is with Calcium Chloride and Epsom Salt (magnesium sulfate heptahydrate).
Start with 3 tablespoons of each dissolved in a container of pond water before adding it to the pond. Slowly pour it around the perimeter. This amount should raise the Hardness in a 1,000 gallon pond about 5 ppm. Not recommended to raise calcium by more than 20 ppm per 24 hours.
Swimming pool supplies 'calcium hardness increaser' is calcium chloride and is safe for fish.
 
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I don't know that pH swings would affect only one fish, though.Your pH swings are interesting - I am not a water testing expert, but hopefully someone else can chime in on that one. Morning to evening shifts are expected; but you should get close to the same morning/evening readings.
 

mrsclem

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It sounds like this one fish has never been right. Not growing and keeping to itself leads me to believe there were health issues from the start. How are the rest of the fish? If you are net seeing any issues, I would work on getting your gh & kh up to help with the ph fluctuations.
 
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I did mix the baking soda separately to dissolve in a bucket of pond water before adding to the pond, then did the same with the epsom salts. As you can see from the numbers it did raise the gh and kh some... Would raising it by that much cause the fish death? My goal was raising them but after this result I'm a little hesitant to add more.
Is it likely the fish death was prompted by what I did, or are you thinking it is a coincidence?
While I'm monitoring the other fish, I don't know what I should have done differently to save this one :(
 
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My rule of thumb is that is only one fish is behaving like it is sick and the rest are ok then the water is not the problem. If all fish are behaving the same way at all the same time then the water is almost definitely the problem. If all fish got sick one by one then it is something transmitted like parasites usually. In your case I would watch the others carefully to make sure that whatever the sick fish had is not passed on to the others. I would not suspect the water to be your problem at all. Fish are like humans - some of us get sick and die for all sorts of reasons. I don't think you did anything wrong. so lets just assume it was natural causes BUT watch the others carefully to make sure there is no waterborne disease that could affect the others or parasites.
 
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Thank you for the insight; I do plan to continue gradually trying to raise the kh and gh so ph swings are less of an issue anyway.

If this was unlikely to be the cause of the fish's demise, is there something else I could try if another fish starts to behave like this? I wondered if there was something wrong from its different behavior, especially as it grew more listless in the last few days, but as I could not see anything else wrong in its appearance I didn't realize it was close to death. Even if I could go back I don't know what I could have done differently with that fish.
 
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No, I did not quarantine this fish, all the fish are basically new since the pond isn't that old. I don't think it would have helped though, since if the fish had been isolated, the behavior of wanting to be by itself wouldn't have been noticeable. I did consider removing it when it started acting more listless, but I was concerned that would stress it more and wouldn't help.
 
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Doesn't matter if the pond is new. Once you have fish that are known to be healthy you risk infecting them any time you add another fish without a quarantine period.

Also you risk adding parasites to your pond. And if that happens you will have to spend a lot more money on medication to treat a larger amount of water than if you had the fish in a smaller quarantine/hospital tank. You may also set back your filter if you have to use a medication that kills off the good bacteria.
 
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Doesn't matter if the pond is new. Once you have fish that are known to be healthy you risk infecting them any time you add another fish without a quarantine period.

Also you risk adding parasites to your pond. And if that happens you will have to spend a lot more money on medication to treat a larger amount of water than if you had the fish in a smaller quarantine/hospital tank. You may also set back your filter if you have to use a medication that kills off the good bacteria.
I figured you would say that, but I don't see how quarantine would have helped at all in this case. As I said, the fish are all relatively new so none of them were known be any healthier than others. The effect of quarantining would not have helped the sick fish, and having it in a tank by itself would have meant I'd be unaware of its loner behavior anyway until I put it in with the others. It also wouldn't put me any closer to figuring out what was wrong or helping it.
 
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I figured you would say that, but I don't see how quarantine would have helped at all in this case. As I said, the fish are all relatively new so none of them were known be any healthier than others. The effect of quarantining would not have helped the sick fish, and having it in a tank by itself would have meant I'd be unaware of its loner behavior anyway until I put it in with the others. It also wouldn't put me any closer to figuring out what was wrong or helping it.
The other fish are all still good aren't they? If so then the fish dying was "just one of those things" maybe!! Fish are like people. Some get sick and are not healthy and die. Like people. I suspect you did nothing wrong and could not have done anything to fix the situation. If it was infectious the others would be showing some signs by now. Let say the poor little guy was not happy or healthy. Keep an eye on the others as I am sure you are doing. If they are all good and keeping active then no worries.
Ray
 

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