Native Fish Pond

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I am in the process of planning a native (to ohio) fish pond and stream set up. I do keep a 29 gallon sumpless saltwater reef aquarium so I have experience with fish keeping, though entering the world of a pond will be very new to me. I would like to run by my idea with you all, and see what you have to say, and consider any suggestions.
Anyway, I am planning a setup with 2 ponds, one larger than the other, and a stream connecting them. The upper pond I plan on digging out to be roughly 6 ft by 6 ft, and 3 to 4 feet deep. I plan to shade this upper pond heavily with pine trees to cool the water (i'm hoping the pine trees won't deposit too many needles in the stream. Then from the upper pond I plan to have a stream 10-15 ft long. The stream will be shallow on one side to grow reeds and aquatic grasses, and deeper, about 1.5-2 feet on the other side to provide a habitat for fish and allow them to safely cross between the upper and lower ponds. More pine trees will be planted on the bank of the deeper side of the stream. The stream I plan to put smaller stones or pebbles on the bottom of, though I will keep the ponds mostly bare on the bottom to make maintenance easier, save maybe one or two larger boulders or logs to provide a habitat for the fish. The larger stream on the bottom will be about 10 ft by 10 ft, and will be up against a side of the house. The part of the larger pond nearest the mouth of the stream will be shallower, to plant more grasses and reeds. The portion of the pond nearest the house will have a small shallow part as well, again, for some reeds, but it will drop off quick, and mostly be very deep, 4-5 ft. A few pine trees will be planted around this pond. A pump (I'm thinking maybe 3,000 gallons per hour, does that sound high powered enough?) will pump water from the depths of the lower pond to the upper pond, again, to try to maintain a cooler temperature.
As far as stocking is concerned, I would like to catch some native fish from my local river and stock some of those sparingly. I plan to target a few rock bass on the fly, and stock 4 or so of those. I plan to capture some minnows as well, and maybe some sculpins or darters. Ideally this food chain would be self sustaining somewhat, and I wouldn't need to feed the rock bass (they should consume insects as well as minnows). Hopefully the plants will protect minnow and other fish fry for the rock bass to eat latter.

The biggest thing I am struggling with is filtration. This (as with most aquatic set ups) seems to be the most expensive. However, I am curious if I could rely entirely on biological filtration. The pebble substrate in the stream would provide lots of surface area for bacteria to colonize. The plants in the stream and ponds would suck up nutrients and hopefully out compete algae.
As far as filling the system, I hope to do it with mostly rainwater. We have a downspout near the location for the pond, So I plan to divert water from that to fill the pond. Also, would rain take care of water changes on the pond more or less? The rainwater would rinse out dirty water in the pond and replace it with fresh rainwater correct?
 

Meyer Jordan

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I am in the process of planning a native (to ohio) fish pond and stream set up. I do keep a 29 gallon sumpless saltwater reef aquarium so I have experience with fish keeping, though entering the world of a pond will be very new to me. I would like to run by my idea with you all, and see what you have to say, and consider any suggestions.
Anyway, I am planning a setup with 2 ponds, one larger than the other, and a stream connecting them. The upper pond I plan on digging out to be roughly 6 ft by 6 ft, and 3 to 4 feet deep. I plan to shade this upper pond heavily with pine trees to cool the water (i'm hoping the pine trees won't deposit too many needles in the stream. Then from the upper pond I plan to have a stream 10-15 ft long. The stream will be shallow on one side to grow reeds and aquatic grasses, and deeper, about 1.5-2 feet on the other side to provide a habitat for fish and allow them to safely cross between the upper and lower ponds. More pine trees will be planted on the bank of the deeper side of the stream. The stream I plan to put smaller stones or pebbles on the bottom of, though I will keep the ponds mostly bare on the bottom to make maintenance easier, save maybe one or two larger boulders or logs to provide a habitat for the fish. The larger stream on the bottom will be about 10 ft by 10 ft, and will be up against a side of the house. The part of the larger pond nearest the mouth of the stream will be shallower, to plant more grasses and reeds. The portion of the pond nearest the house will have a small shallow part as well, again, for some reeds, but it will drop off quick, and mostly be very deep, 4-5 ft. A few pine trees will be planted around this pond. A pump (I'm thinking maybe 3,000 gallons per hour, does that sound high powered enough?) will pump water from the depths of the lower pond to the upper pond, again, to try to maintain a cooler temperature.
As far as stocking is concerned, I would like to catch some native fish from my local river and stock some of those sparingly. I plan to target a few rock bass on the fly, and stock 4 or so of those. I plan to capture some minnows as well, and maybe some sculpins or darters. Ideally this food chain would be self sustaining somewhat, and I wouldn't need to feed the rock bass (they should consume insects as well as minnows). Hopefully the plants will protect minnow and other fish fry for the rock bass to eat latter.

The biggest thing I am struggling with is filtration. This (as with most aquatic set ups) seems to be the most expensive. However, I am curious if I could rely entirely on biological filtration. The pebble substrate in the stream would provide lots of surface area for bacteria to colonize. The plants in the stream and ponds would suck up nutrients and hopefully out compete algae.
As far as filling the system, I hope to do it with mostly rainwater. We have a downspout near the location for the pond, So I plan to divert water from that to fill the pond. Also, would rain take care of water changes on the pond more or less? The rainwater would rinse out dirty water in the pond and replace it with fresh rainwater correct?

Sounds great if you leave out the pine trees. Pine needles may quickly clog the stream. Pine needles do not float very long, if at all, and will sink to thye bottom f both ponds rapidly building a sediment layer that could cause problems unless you stock some bottom feeders. The native fish idea is great, but Bass are carnivores and are not suited for small bodies of water. They will rapidly de-populate the rest of the pond.
Will these ponds be lined or earthen-bottom?
Where are you located? (Never mind, I see that you are in Ohio.)
The stream, if properly constructed, should supply ample biological filtration depending on overall fish load. Mechanical filtration should be seriously considered.
Based on rough calculations you will have 3000+ gallons total. 2 ponds and the stream. For adequate flow, you will need a 4500 to 6000 gph pump.
 
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Welcome grant778 to ourlittle group at GPF=garden pond fanatics.Well it seems like you got some excellent advice already so no need to add much more. It probably makes sense to make sure the flow between the ponds is what you want before you consider adding fish. Streams are notorious for leaking water if the aren't built correctly. Good luck!!
 
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What if I were to supplement the rock bass' diet with pellet food? They only reach 6-10 inches long usually, and perhaps I could stock some crayfish as well?
 

Meyer Jordan

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What if I were to supplement the rock bass' diet with pellet food? They only reach 6-10 inches long usually, and perhaps I could stock some crayfish as well?

My understanding is that it is extremely hard to train Rock Bass to eat pellets.

My real concern here is that you are trying to put too much diversity into a system that is not large enough to support it.
 
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Fair enough. So perhaps just the minnows and darters then? Maybe like 6 darters?
Also, what about Northern white cedar trees (Thuja occidentalis). They don't have the the needles like normal pines, and they maintain their leaves year round.
 

Meyer Jordan

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Fair enough. So perhaps just the minnows and darters then? Maybe like 6 darters?
Also, what about Northern white cedar trees (Thuja occidentalis). They don't have the the needles like normal pines, and they maintain their leaves year round.
Would definitely be better.
This would not have any direct impact on the pond, but is there a reason that you are going to plant all of the same specie and variety of tree? Diversity in foliage promotes a diversity in birds and other animals.
 
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Well I was going to do lily pads, a few different reed species, and cattails as well. I'm certainly open to other tree/shrub suggestions as I want a variety of birds and such to come. I just can't think of a ton of other tree species at the moment. I brought up the northern white cedars because we have them in our yard currently and the deer leave them alone, though I would certainly prefer to have some other tree types as well.
 

Meyer Jordan

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Well I was going to do lily pads, a few different reed species, and cattails as well. I'm certainly open to other tree/shrub suggestions as I want a variety of birds and such to come. I just can't think of a ton of other tree species at the moment. I brought up the northern white cedars because we have them in our yard currently and the deer leave them alone, though I would certainly prefer to have some other tree types as well.
Check with a local nursery for suggestions. Diversity is the key.
 

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