Need advice/ideas for small partially above ground pond

JBailey

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Hi all!
I'm sure there are relevant threads about his already, so please direct me there if need be.

I want to make a 200-300g pond that is maybe 3 ft deep, and rectangular, with the above ground part being 18"ish. Originally I was thinking of the upper part being concrete block with a hypertufa coating to make it look like an old stone trough, but my partner informed me that just blocks that look like roughcut stone are preferable. I'll probably 'paint' it with moss slurry to age it anyway. This is close - https://www.pinterest.com/pin/298574650275510697/
I had thought something like this with the tufa coating - https://www.pinterest.com/pin/298574650275522117/

So far I've looked at rough face concrete blocks and solid retaining wall blocks, and another retaining wall block with holes in the middle to make them lighter.
I need the materials to be easy to find, i.e. Lowes or Home Depot, because we'll need to buy them over time. I also don't want to get crazy with footings, rebar, poured concrete etc if I can help it. I'm hoping with such a low wall we can skip some of that, but we'll see.
I plan to draw the perimeter and dig down a more oval shape below grade, do underlayment with foamboard inside the block wall part, then a liner. I also want to do a bog filter within the perimeter, so some kind of partition is needed. No bottom drain. submersible pump, with spillway coming from the bog filter. A few plants and goldfish in the main part, and space in the bog for tree frogs to do their thing. The area is close to our septic, so it will stay small and not too deep. It's also fully exposed to the south and west, so I will need to add some plants/decor for extra shade.

Any pointers for the wall part? For such a small pond, how overbuilt should I make it?
 

DrCase

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Welcome to the Forum
I started with a small pond
Deeper or higher to get more gals will make your life easier
 

Meyer Jordan

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First of all, let's start with the basics. A 300 gallon pond 3 feet deep will only have slightly over 13 sq.ft. of surface area. This, to begin with is quite restrictive. Any attempt to include an effectively sized 'bog' filter within the perimeter will prove unworkable.
As to the wall composition, concrete block will serve your purpose well, but it is advisable to pour a footing even for an 18" high wall.
I would suggest that you rethink either the depth or surface area or both, with an emphasis on more surface area.
 

JBailey

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I need to get out and do some measuring in the daylight, when it's not bucketing or blowing sideways. There is some fencing where I want the pond that makes it hard to get a visual on how much space is available, and it's low on the list to be removed until spring.
It's next to a kitchen garden area we are remodeling, so there is wiggle room in size if I can get the design right. Definitely spent too much time today, looking at pictures and diagrams.

Right now I need to sort out materials and building techniques for a general shape and height. I can edit for size changes.
 

DrCase

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Ponds don't have to be built in a weekend , if you need to move some fence to get the space you need for the pond let the build go on for 5 or 6 months too get it right

I just put fish in a small pond I have been working on since February
 

JBailey

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I like to get all my planning done ahead of time so I can look for materials as they go on sale or show up on craigslist, so I don't need the fence moved right away for building, more for getting a visual on placement and size. It's funny how my brain has a hard time seeing through something already built in a spot. I catch myself trying to work around the fence when it's like a 2 hour project to pull it out and open up the space.

We have an old original homestead cabin and the septic was put in maybe in the 60's, with no map or plan on file. We have to locate any pipes and drainfield by eyeballing the line from the house drain cleanout to the septic tank lid and out into the pasture. It's all tucked up close to the house compared to modern layouts, but not going to be moved or replaced any time soon.

I'd rather go with fewer or no fish and keep it in that area though. The fish are fun, and I've done a successful small fishpond at my old house, but this time I'd rather have more of a refuge for frogs if I have to choose.
I can probably go 4 x 6ft interior perimeter dimensions, 3ish ft deep, with bog filter elevated and set back from the main part. Kind of like this https://www.pinterest.com/pin/298574650275546093/ with the bog part 'smushed' down more and sized appropriately, but not taking up the 4x6 surface area of the main part.
To go any bigger I'd need to move the whole thing, and I'm not quite ready to do that yet. I want it as part of the kitchen garden/barnyard access court if possible. Other locations not impacted by septic or our giant douglas fir trees in the house yard are on the other side of the house, the north side, and would be kind of plunked away from our usual traffic patterns where we can get the most enjoyment, not to mention the garden frogs.

Obviously I need to spend many more hours online, looking at pond porn :p
 

JBailey

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I finally was able to do some measuring, and the area in mind can fit a 5 x 12 footprint.
 

DrCase

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That size will give you room for the walls and a divider for your bog
 

JBailey

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I'm also re-running my barnyard wiring, so knowing the rough dimensions and layout will help me know where to run power too. Now I need a winning lotto ticket and a month of good weather!
 
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If you don't have fish then you wouldn't need it that deep for frogs. As far as building it above ground....why? Doing so just makes that much more difficult, not to mention the extra expense in building the raised portion.. Not only do you have to build it correctly (yes you need a footer and re bar to tie it into the footer) but then you also have to deal with making the above ground portion look decent, which concrete blocks don't. You will also have to somehow attach the liner to the blocks or get the liner up to the blocks then waterproof the blocks otherwise the water will seep through them.
 

JBailey

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I don't want an incongruous hole in the ground type pond that looks like I kidnapped a Home Depot display.
If I'm going to add an artificial water feature, one that I can build to look like an old well/spring head with trough would integrate with my setting (which is a 100 yr old homestead cabin). I do have fish currently, and prefer to build to accommodate both them and native frogs, hence planning a deeper part and shallower bog part off-limits to fish.

Concrete block for the sub-structure, with some kind of overcoat on the outside, possibly tufa or stucco-like texture. Or possibly retaining wall type blocks that already have a nice finish.

Partially in ground because I want to be able to sit on the edge, keep dogs from using it as a water dish, not dig so deep in that particular location, have an elevated 'tank' for easier overflow routing into my garden, and because I have seen some attractive designs that I can work from.

How is the liner going to be a problem? I see plenty of ponds on this forum with liners used in partially above-ground ponds with various stone/concrete block upper walls. I dig the lower part, build the upper part, put in underlayment, add liner with top held in place by more decorative cap blocks/stones. Just like many other people have done.

Anyway, I am doing as much research as I can, and getting a materials list together, since I can't buy or build anything right now. Whichever direction I go, it will no doubt be overbuilt, because that is generally my style with building projects. Live and learn.
 
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JBailey

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If I were to do a raised bog filter along these lines, would a separate container work, and if so, how much weight are we talking for support? Minimum 12" deep and say 18-24" x 42-48" (depending on container and how it's supported).
4db38a262e5c091f8152b417333ae53c.jpg


I'm thinking about a hypertufa trough as the bog container. There are different recipes lending differing levels of water holding ability, and I've seen it used for small water features and bog plantings, so I know it should be technically possible. Smaller basin set on one end of main pond rectangle, like a farm trough with raised catch basin.
A basin like this, sized to fit across the end of the main part, maybe setting on upright concrete blocks that are setting on the pond bottom so the fish could swim under? How would I pad the blocks so they wouldn't damage the liner?
hypertufa-planter.jpg


I really need to start sketching!
 

JBailey

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I think I am going to take a look at wood-walled partially above ground ponds, with raised bog filter at one end. Wood construction is something I am totally familiar with and lets me use some materials I already have on hand. Since the walls won't be terribly high, I can still use my hypertufa skin idea, or even faux/stone veneer, without too much cost and hassle.
I'm still trying to suss out the best way to support the weight of a raised bog though. A foot deep pea gravel is heavy!
Luckily there are many helpful threads to pore over here.
 
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"How is the liner going to be a problem? I see plenty of ponds on this forum with liners used in partially above-ground ponds with various stone/concrete block upper walls. I dig the lower part, build the upper part, put in underlayment, add liner with top held in place by more decorative cap blocks/stones."
Capping stones will work but unless you bring the water up to the top of the blocks you will see a lot of rubber above the water line. Also unless you get good fitting stones (not natural stones) you will see the liner between the stones. As far as the dogs drinking out of the pond you will have to keep the water low which in turn allows more liner to be seen. At all cost you should do what ever you can to conceal the liner. IMHO.
 

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