Need advice: sleeper pond with viewing window


teckpham

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Hi everyone,

I have been following this forum for almost 2 years now. I would like to thank you to all the veterans here that have helped me with my first pond that has been running for 1.5 years now. I went with the bog design (thanks @addy1). It was slow progress due to work, funds available, and by myself.

Here is what it looked like a few months ago:
20210201_112813.jpg


The water is crystal clear even with very slow water flow.


Zoomed out view of what it looks like now:
20210920_215409.jpg



This is my plan for the new area:
new pond design.JPG

The cubby house will be converted into a Japanese teahouse.


I am now stuck on deciding on a few things.

First the new skimmer. It will be under the teahouse.
20210921_130702.jpg

The teahouse will be lowered down to the same level as the sleepers. The deck area in front of the teahouse will be able to lift up for accessing whatever is under there.

I just can't decide the type of water return to use.
- Negative edge: make use of the whole area under the teahouse and act as a cistern as well. Moisture issue for the teahouse?
- Intake bay: just the area in front of the teahouse.
- floating skimmer????


For the viewing window, here are what I am planning to use but not sure if it is strong enough.
20210921_130905.jpg


Metal frame: https://www.bunnings.com.au/metal-mate-50-x-25-x-3-0mm-3m-aluminium-unequal-angle_p1138212
Glass: htps://www.bunnings.com.au/atrchitects-choice-1200-x-600-x-12mm-glass-pool-fence-panel_p0015406

view window.JPG

There will be a piece of hardwood supporting where the 2 pieces of glasses join. The viewing size will be 2.4m x 0.6m. The water level will be where the top of the glasses are.

Any help would be much appreciated.
 
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j.w

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@teckpham
That is looking like a wonderful plan and seeing it in progress is quite fun! Keep on truckin!
 

brokensword

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Hi everyone,

I have been following this forum for almost 2 years now. I would like to thank you to all the veterans here that have helped me with my first pond that has been running for 1.5 years now. I went with the bog design (thanks @addy1). It was slow progress due to work, funds available, and by myself.

Here is what it looked like a few months ago:
View attachment 142759

The water is crystal clear even with very slow water flow.


Zoomed out view of what it looks like now:
View attachment 142821


This is my plan for the new area:
View attachment 142827
The cubby house will be converted into a Japanese teahouse.


I am now stuck on deciding on a few things.

First the new skimmer. It will be under the teahouse.
View attachment 142840
The teahouse will be lowered down to the same level as the sleepers. The deck area in front of the teahouse will be able to lift up for accessing whatever is under there.

I just can't decide the type of water return to use.
- Negative edge: make use of the whole area under the teahouse and act as a cistern as well. Moisture issue for the teahouse?
- Intake bay: just the area in front of the teahouse.
- floating skimmer????


For the viewing window, here are what I am planning to use but not sure if it is strong enough.
View attachment 142841

Metal frame: https://www.bunnings.com.au/metal-mate-50-x-25-x-3-0mm-3m-aluminium-unequal-angle_p1138212
Glass: htps://www.bunnings.com.au/atrchitects-choice-1200-x-600-x-12mm-glass-pool-fence-panel_p0015406

View attachment 142842
There will be a piece of hardwood supporting where the 2 pieces of glasses join. The viewing size will be 2.4m x 0.6m. The water level will be where the top of the glasses are.

Any help would be much appreciated.
engineering viewing windows is critical; I hope you had/have help in this area (or ARE an engineer) as the water (sheer force) is going to be huge. On first blush, you're going to need much better support than what I'm seeing. Wood flexes and your glass will not, so you're going to put stress/strain on your framework I'd consider either reinforced masonry or welded steel for window supports. My father built reinforced concrete AQUARIUMS, not a pond window, and the supporting frame was of 4" concrete with angle iron frame built into that, and this was for ONLY a 200 gallon unit. You're talking 4'x2' pieces (similar to my dad's aq window) set in aluminum (which I believe will bend).

Just my opinion, but I don't think your wood structure is going to not develop issues with time and water pressure.
 

teckpham

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@brokensword:
I am not an engineer. I just do a lot of DIY and watch YouTube. Was just hoping that the 50mm right angle aluminum is strong enough.

Just my opinion, but I don't think your wood structure is going to not develop issues with time and water pressure.
I think you are right. I will have a look into concrete and steel frame. Thanks.
 
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teckpham

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Re-designed the window. Got some structure engineering staff at my workplace to check the structure requirement. Should be all good this time.
new window design.JPG



We are still in lockdown here. I have a hard time getting the metal pieces online for pickup. Ordered from 3 stores already and am still missing one piece.

Cut what I got so far:
20211017_184626.jpg


20211017_151755.jpg

I will have to learn how to weld next week and then coat it with anti-rust paint.

Pond liner and underlay came as well. Got a free upgrade from 45 to 47.2mil for free due to the delay.

20211012_135343.jpg

A whole roll of 6x15m. That thing is god damn heavy.
 
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While angle iron is certainly stronger in its optimum configuration it can still deflect greatly now adding the angle iron on to the wood frame samwhiching the lumber now you have almost removed deflection all together. That is a huge viewing window that will need to withstand great pressure as previously noted. Your next challange will be a firm secure water tight fitting around it. I would have a mehanicle as well as a glue doing that job
 

brokensword

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Re-designed the window. Got some structure engineering staff at my workplace to check the structure requirement. Should be all good this time.
View attachment 143305


We are still in lockdown here. I have a hard time getting the metal pieces online for pickup. Ordered from 3 stores already and am still missing one piece.

Cut what I got so far:
View attachment 143306

View attachment 143307
I will have to learn how to weld next week and then coat it with anti-rust paint.

Pond liner and underlay came as well. Got a free upgrade from 45 to 47.2mil for free due to the delay.

View attachment 143308
A whole roll of 6x15m. That thing is god damn heavy.
I don't remember the details, but if you get frost, I'd be leery of NOT having a footing that goes lower than the frost line, beneath your concrete slab. The earth is going to lift during winter (if you get sub freezing temps) and I'd be worried about the stress on all your seal points if the slab cracks at all and moves. @GBBUDD and @Jhn ; care to weigh in?
 

teckpham

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I don't remember the details, but if you get frost, I'd be leery of NOT having a footing that goes lower than the frost line, beneath your concrete slab. The earth is going to lift during winter (if you get sub freezing temps) and I'd be worried about the stress on all your seal points if the slab cracks at all and moves. @GBBUDD and @Jhn ; care to weigh in?
The ground won't be frozen as we only get sub freezing temperature maybe once or twice a year where I am.
 
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teckpham

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While angle iron is certainly stronger in its optimum configuration it can still deflect greatly now adding the angle iron on to the wood frame samwhiching the lumber now you have almost removed deflection all together. That is a huge viewing window that will need to withstand great pressure as previously noted. Your next challange will be a firm secure water tight fitting around it. I would have a mehanicle as well as a glue doing that job
While angle iron is certainly stronger in its optimum configuration it can still deflect greatly now adding the angle iron on to the wood frame samwhiching the lumber now you have almost removed deflection all together. That is a huge viewing window that will need to withstand great pressure as previously noted. Your next challange will be a firm secure water tight fitting around it. I would have a mehanicle as well as a glue doing that job
With the liner sandwiched between the glass and frame, how well do you think the silicone will performe between epdm-to-glass and epdm-to-metal?

The pressure on the glass should create a tight shield right?
 

teckpham

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Interesting. I did not know they even made 47.2 mil epdm. What's the point? What does an extra 2.2 mil get you?



Maybe a good use case for those aluminum termination bars.

0812_1.png
Because of the depth of my angle metal frame. I am thinking of something like this:
Screen Shot 2021-10-18 at 12.45.48 pm.png


The weak points will still be at those 4 corners of each glass panel. Will silicone be OK for it?

Is it safe to have aluminum under water?
 

teckpham

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Decided to dig a hole under that cubby house. It will act as the negative edge and rainwater storage. It can hold around 4000 liters.
20211102_163024.jpg


Added extra support for the cubby house as I wanted it as low as possible to the water level of the pond and store as much water as possible. Also, it is a place I can anchor a crate and put the pump in there.
20211102_185418.jpg
.

The cubby house is lowered to just above the water level of the pond.
20211028_175053.jpg


The window frame is done and coated. Being a newbie at welding and using a cheapy welder, it was a Frankenstien job :oops:
20211102_133923.jpg


I'm hoping to put the frame up and pour concrete support this weekend.

My golden kiwis are loving the pond water.
Male kiwi.
20211025_120952.jpg


Female kiwi
20211024_125745.jpg
 

brokensword

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Decided to dig a hole under that cubby house. It will act as the negative edge and rainwater storage. It can hold around 4000 liters.
View attachment 143647

Added extra support for the cubby house as I wanted it as low as possible to the water level of the pond and store as much water as possible. Also, it is a place I can anchor a crate and put the pump in there.View attachment 143648.

The cubby house is lowered to just above the water level of the pond.View attachment 143649

The window frame is done and coated. Being a newbie at welding and using a cheapy welder, it was a Frankenstien job :oops:View attachment 143650

I'm hoping to put the frame up and pour concrete support this weekend.

My golden kiwis are loving the pond water.
Male kiwi.
View attachment 143651

Female kiwiView attachment 143652
dayum; if you're doing all that, why not put in a VIEWING window in the cubby house floor and connect the storage to the pond, giving the fish a place to both hide and stay warmer!! And of course, give YOU an interesting and different view of your pond!


I like!



smilie sword twirl.gif
 

teckpham

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dayum; if you're doing all that, why not put in a VIEWING window in the cubby house floor and connect the storage to the pond, giving the fish a place to both hide and stay warmer!! And of course, give YOU an interesting and different view of your pond!


I like!



View attachment 143663
Hahaha, I did think of that. To do that, I would have to use concrete blocks for side walls and change the cubby house's structure to steel. The toughten glasses would have to be 3 x 10mm laminated. That would blew my budget out of the water lol
 
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You have the idea but i would lean towards a little more like this with this design you can always tighten more if leaking yours does not have that option from what i see
 

teckpham

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You have the idea but i would lean towards a little more like this with this design you can always tighten more if leaking yours does not have that option from what i see
Yes, that design is definitely super strong.

From what I am trying to do, there are only a couple of places that the water can go through.
weak points of window.JPG


A large amount of pressure pushing on the glass sandwiches the liner to the window frame will make it unlike to leak as long as my frame holding its shape (hopefully).

I am capping it with angled aluminum. There will be silicone at those weak points.

From Youtube, some people just relied on the silicone and the force of the water to hold it in place.


My worry is how well the silicone will stick?
 
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The best design will not rely on silicone or any caulking to stick but for pressure squeezing these materials tight . You never want any hard item touching the glass. Always leave expansion gaps so when going from summer to winter the glass can expand and contract without any sticking
 
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