Need guidance please

[sissy]

algaecide should never even be sold,it is a killer .To clear water in my stock tanks I use liquid barley and there is also barley with peat .In my pond I just use a lot of air and water movement .I have 12 air stones on a laguna aerator and then my spitters .Over aeration is better than anything to clear up water .I run my uv for about a month only to help everything get started up .

 

[Meyer Jordan]

You may have mentioned this earlier, but how would you describe your Water 'Clarity'? Clear, cloudy white, cloudy brown, cloudy green or other?

 

[Joe1279]

Thanks Jordan for the info. I did order an aerator this am. The water is cloudy green. We got hit with 50 degree weather an Rain all day, so I am hoping tomorrow to drain 25% and do some water change. I guess I don't know the best way to get the sludge off the bottom without causing more problems. I also looked at that liquid barely on Amazon today too and was thinking about that. I think I souls but all the filters back in. I have four more that are usually in, I was just trying to get the water cleared up first. And the firsh were spawning again today!

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Thanks Jordan for the info. I did order an aerator this am. The water is cloudy green. We got hit with 50 degree weather an Rain all day, so I am hoping tomorrow to drain 25% and do some water change. I guess I don't know the best way to get the sludge off the bottom without causing more problems. I also looked at that liquid barely on Amazon today too and was thinking about that. I think I souls but all the filters back in. I have four more that are usually in, I was just trying to get the water cleared up first. And the firsh were spawning again today!

Don't hold out too much hope of the water clearing until the fish finish spawning. In the meantime I would suggest that you completely reassemble all of your filters so that they are functioning 100%. You need this.
How thick do you estimate is the sludge build-up on the bottom of the pond.. There are products on the market nicknamed 'sludge-busters' that are primarily bacteria but will do a satisfactory job of breaking down the sludge, especially if used in conjunction with an aerator.

 

[Joe1279]

Oh ok. So when they spawn they are stirring up the bottom too? It isn't that thick. I just had the pond put in last August. I have about 20 koi in. And I cleaned the leaves off in the winter so it isn't too bad. ( from what I can see). The deep end is 5 ft so I really can't see what is going on down there. Meyer Jordan, did u get a look at the pics of the black and white fish close up? Do you have any idea what the poor thing had going on there? I ended up also ordering the barley-peat mix. So hopefully, it is literally 34 degrees out right now and Tommorow is no better. We are supposed to hit the 70's next weeks so I am really hoping the new areator will be in and we can get some water drained and some new water out in. But I will look into the natural sludge buster too.

 

[cas]

@Joe1279 , the spring after I built my pond, I had green water for 2 months. A lot greener than yours. It was thick. I couldn't see the fish unless they were right on the surface. I performed algae treatments and ended up killing all of my fish. Lesson learned. I don't use algae treatments anymore. I started adding more plants to the pond and waited out the spring algae blooms. Once the pond was three years old, the algae blooms stopped. Years later the plants became overgrown and I divided them. I guess I didn't put enough plants back in, because I got the algae bloom again the next spring. In summary - add more plants and be patient!

 

[Tula]

@cas , your pond is loverly, just lovely

It's frustrating to do nothing when our pond has problems, but unless you know what is wrong, it's best to keep things simple. I've looked at the pictures of both your deceased fish and see no obvious signs of problems ex: ulcers, fin - tail - mouth rot, anchor worms or ich. Maybe the picture doesn't show the white spots well, but I can't see them. Carp pox is an ailment that is prevalent in cold weather, again can't see any evidence of this, in your pictures.

You can still use your Pond Breather, it'll help, especially till the aerator arrives. You could also "over flow" your pond, if you know where your low spot is....it kind of refreshes the water, without a full on water change. I think you said you had well water, but be sure to use de-chlor, if you're on city water.

We're having a cold snap here too.

 

[Joe1279]

Thank you all for your advice! So incredible to have a place like this to work things out! I am so glad I came to this forum before doing another treatment of the algefix! I am very able to be patient and I think adding the plants when it is time, getting the areator, doing a little water changes do getting all the other filters in will make big improvements. We actually have a live river(stream) that we get the water from. It is what we initially filled the pond with. I worry about heavy metals, and other things in the well Harming the fish. Everyone seems to be doing week today! Other than not liking the snow showers on May 15th I will attach a closer up photo from the fish that fell ill and passed to see if it is a clearer view.

 

[Tula]

Hmmmmmm, in this newly posted, close up picture, it does look like it could be ich

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Due to the life cycle of the Ich parasite, the entire pond must be treated multiple times to ensure complete eradication. Treatment in quarantine tanks will not kill the parasite in the pond water.

 

[Joe1279]

Due to the life cycle of the Ich parasite, the entire pond must be treated multiple times to ensure complete eradication. Treatment in quarantine tanks will not kill the parasite in the pond water.

Do you feel it looks as if it is ich?? How do you treat if you are trying to not add more chemicals!? And how so I treat 21,000 gallons!!!!!

 

[Joe1279]

Hmmmmmm, in this newly posted, close up picture, it does look like it could be ich

Uggg. I really felt there is something. Last year when I built the pond, I made the mistake of getting different fish from different shops and even a few from someone's pond. Now... Learning the risks, I have learned my lesson. But when the man who gave me a few from his pond came over to see them in their new environment, he was concerned because a they were jumping out of the water. He thought at that time I may have a problem. Possibly the winter held it dormant and it is now rearing its ugly head! Why is it when you build something that is for relaxation and pleasure, there comes such a complex book of do and dont's. I have never owned a goldfish let alone have a giant pond. So much to learn!! And learning the hard way is not the position I wanted to be in!!!

 

[crsublette]

So much to learn!! And learning the hard way is not the position I wanted to be in!!!

Yep, exactly... this is why I try to write so much to help people learn, even though it might get a bit "heady", so that it hopefully avoids future problems.

 

[crsublette]

Do you feel it looks as if it is ich?? How do you treat if you are trying to not add more chemicals!? And how so I treat 21,000 gallons!!!!!

I imagine Meyer will post his remedy here soon....


...mean while... here is an excellent thread you should study that may help you better prepare in the future.... Most of it applies to goldfish the same as it does with koi... they also have an excellent goldfish health section.

Emergency Section Koi Health Sticky
http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?42809-Emergency-Section-Koi-Health-Sticky

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Do you feel it looks as if it is ich?? How do you treat if you are trying to not add more chemicals!? And how so I treat 21,000 gallons!!!!!

My assessment that this is Ich is based solely on the photos that you have supplied. This is, of course, no substitute for a more accurate on-site assessment.

Let me clarify what I stated earlier about treating the fish in a quarantine facility. IF you can move all of the fish to a quarantine facility, they can be treated. Once the pond is devoid of any fish, the parasites will eventually die from lack of a host. This, however may take up to two (2) weeks because of your low water temperature. Returning the fish to the pond before this two (2) week period is expired may be ill-advised.
If this course of action is not feasible then your only other option is treating the entire pond without removing the fish.

http://www.kordon.com/kordon/products/chemical-preventatives-and-treatments-2/rid-ich

Kordon Rid-ex Plus is a very good product choice for this.
RID-ICH PLUS® 1 gallon (3.78 L) treats 7,693 gallons and is available on-line for $40 or less per gallon.
I would suggest that you utilize the link below and read everything about this product before use.
Sorry that there is no simple and inexpensive solution to your problem