need help w/ what filter/pump for 3600 gallons

[chappy]

my pond will be roughly 3600 gallons. the dimensions will be 8' x 20'. the depth will start at 2' and slope down to 4'.

this pond will be for koi, and i live in north texas.

what filter and pump does everyone suggest. i would like to know the best combo, and then the best combo for the money as well.

this pond is only in the beginning stages of being dug out. i am open to changes if i need to make them. the width is the only thing i cannot change because of where it is in my backyard.

thank you everyone.

 

[koiguy1969]

if your going submersable pump i would go with Laguna they are about as good as it gets for energy consumption and have a great warranty. as a DIYer i build my own eguipment outside of the pump...go to the DIY section for some plans on good filters.

 

[koidaddy]

I posted this on you other page for you chappy, hope its helpful:


Nice size.

You filter/pump choice is what is going to either make it easy for you are not.
This is where you want to invest a little more up front. You are going to want a mechanical system and a biological system. They can be acheived in the same system or as two seperate units. I am a DIY guy but they have systems out there that are plum it, plug it and go.
With a biological filter it will take a few weeks for the benneficial bacteria to get established so you might have to deal with green water at some point. This can be delt with by adding a UV clearifer/sterilizer. This should not be necessary after a couple of years of it running.
With koi I would try to incorporate some type of bottom drain to remove wast from the lowest part of the pond.
Avoid filters that sit on the bottom of the pond. Maintainance nightmare.

On pumps I personally have several pumps going so if one should malfunction you still have something to move some water. You want ot turn the water at least 1 1/2 times per hour. More is always better here, try to get 3x.

If you add any kind of spillway/waterfall make sure there are no areas for water to seep behind the rocks/liner and drain the pond. This could happen fast.

Do NOT put and rock in the bottom of the pond(hard to clean) or have any jaged rocks hanging over the sides or shelves in the pond.(dangerous for the fish)

These are just a few of my experiences and you will see what work for you as you go along. Mine is still very much a work in progress but I have learned from my failures and have also learnesd alot from this forum in the last few months.

Not trying to scare you away with bad things just letting you know what to expect sometimes.

 

[chappy]

so what i have seen as i search for a pump/filter combo does not make sense. if i choose a pump to turn over the pond 1 to 1.5 times per hour, the filters for my size pond has max flow rates of much much lower gph. so if i send a bigger pump through these filters, the water will go through too fast to let the biological filtration do its job. seems like everything is contradictory. can any one help me figure out a good quality product for a 3600 - 4000 gallon koi pond?

 

[koidaddy]

There was a post buy someone here on the bio media thread about water flow having no effect on the biological bacteria unless it is flowing through like niagra falls. So I guess it comes down to the size if the filter. I am using a pondmaster mag drive 24 pump rated at 2400 per hour. With the plumbing I would guess I am pushing about 2000? gallons through my dual 55 gallon barrel setup. It has 1 1/2" comming in and 2" connecting and discharging back into the pond. I set this filter 2 weeks ago and today my water is clearer then its ever. The first barrel has the coarse filter media and the second has the biological. I think mine is similier to the Doc filter but I have also built a skippy style and like this new set up better. I am using my skipper tub to raise my lillys right now.

Hopefully someone who has purchased all in one off the self filter will respond for you.

 

[chappy]

do you ever clean your filter media. or just drain the muck out of the bottom of the tubs. i know not to clean the media with chlorinated water. i do indoor aquariums and at some point i do have to clean the filters because they stop working properly.

what do you use in the 1st and 2nd barrels for media?

 

[koidaddy]

The barrels are a new setup for me so I haven't done any type of cleaning yet. Each barrel has a 1 1/2" bottom drain to flush. I probably will have to clean the filter media in barrel 1 at some point. Its coarse scrubber pad looking stuff about 2" thick that I got from my local pond store. I am thinking when that time comes I will turn the pump off open the bottom drain and pour well water or pond water through the top to rinse it down and out the bottom drain. Barrel 2 has some of the black garden bird netting that I opened up and then balled up and stuck in there. I also has a mess bag for of cut pvc pieces. Then on top of that is pillow matting to get the fines. Nothing in here should need cleaning except the pill matting. There is a swill chamber at the bottom of each barrel thet is @12" of the bottom of the barrel. I will post some pics in a bit.

 

[undrtkr_00]

You could always tee off after the pump and send some of the flow to a waterfall, etc. Put a ball valve or gate valve in and you can control how much flow goes to each side.

HTH

 

[jason081180]

I think what you were reading about the water flow having no effect on the biological bacteria unless it is flowing through like Niagara falls was as it relates to if bacteria will grow there or not. Not if they will clean your water. From what I understand the bacteria needs time to clean your water so if it’s going thru to fast there is no time for them to work. Your dual 55 gallon barrel setup holds 110 GL of water divided by your pump rate of 2000GPH = 0.055 hours times 60 min. = 3.3 min. that's how long the bacteria has to work. The more time the better within reason. Some people say you need to turn your pond water over from .5 -2 times an hour so every 30min up to 2 hours. For a 4000 GL pond I would go with at least a 3000GPH pump so you need a filter that will hold about 150GL for a 3 min retention time. Again the more the better. If you go with a bigger pump you would need a bigger filter. But I don't think I would let the retention time go below 3min. My new filter will have a 4.5 min retention time. If I were you I would buy a 150GL or bigger stock tank and build a stock tank filter unless you have room for like 3 or 4 55GL barrels.

Moderators and Dr’s please correct me if I’m leading anyone astray.

 

[koidaddy]

If bacteria is growing, then it is feeding. Without something to feed on it won't establish. Mine has been set up for two weeks now and my water is clearer then it has ever been.(and water perameters are right on). Inside both of my barrels I have visable bacteria buildup on all my media and plumbing. I added some more media to barrel 2 and notice bacteria has started to build up on the new stuff in under 24 hours.

I will check the flow rate comming from the filter today.

 

[koikeepr]

In terms of cleaning the material in the barrel, the answer is yes--you do. You flush out the bottom of the barrel, but you also clean your media as well. Here's how:

if you got a bag of something in there, whether it be PVC tubes, netting, strapping, whatever, you take that out and just give it a good shake to make any crud fall off. Don't be violent with it as you want to make sure the bacteria hangs on, but do give it a good shake.

With any mechanical media or sponges, that needs a good cleaning too. You never use straight water from the tap as that wreaks havoc on bacteria. While you're doing your 20% water change, just get some water in a bucket from the pond and use that to clean those materials. The one exception to this rule is if you have well water and you don't have to dechlor it--then you may use a hose on a medium setting. My well water is perfect for pond fish and has to right balance. I never have to treat it with dechlor and the like, so I can just hit the media with the hose.

If you don't clean your media it starts to gunk up and become useless, particularly sponges. As much as I love Skippy filters, the one place I disagree with them is where they say never to touch the media or clean it because the muck magically turns to sand. I'm sure there are others that have a different perspective ont he Skippy and are loyal to the no-clean mantra. I believe in getting the crud out of the water column.

 

[koidaddy]

I was thinking about this yesterday koikeepr. I have noticed the bacteria is really starting to form in my mechanical barrel media as well. I am using netting for my biological filter media and notice quite a bit of build up in only 2 weeks. My plan is turn off the pump and pour pond water through the top with the bottom drain open. Maybe 2-4 x a year?

I am more then happy with how things are working this season.

 

[koikeepr]

I wouldn't limit it to 2-4 times per year. I pretty much clean out my media every other time I do a water change. In the hot summer months when I'm doing heavier feeding, I try to do it every time I do a water change. I just take it right out the barrel, as I want to see that I'm getting everything out. It takes 10-15 minutes.

 

[koidaddy]

Thanks. I will keep an eye on it.

I need to fix my well pump soon before the temps get to hot.

 

[chappy]

i found a bubble bead filter for cheap. it is either the 8000 or 10000 gallon version. not sure which one as there is no model # on it but the dimensions of the two are the same. one model holds 4lbs of beads and one holds 5lbs.

another question is does any one know or have the instructions on plumbing fittings for this filter?