New Baby Koi - Types?

[Peepers Mom]

Hi -- Newbie 'Peepers Mom' here with a baby koi question -- "fishin4cars" was nice enough to try to help me if I sent pics of them, so here is a fairly clear pic with all of them together. If anyone else has an idea what they might be 'called', I'd appreciate knowing. Not terribly important, but it would be fun to know. We chose them because we thought they were pretty, not because we knew anything about them..... LOL!

Top, L to R:
Lt. yellow/shiny white scales & fins (butterfly);
Yellow/orange head, yellow body/fins & black back netting ('regular' - as in not butterfly);
Dk blue/grey back & head, orange sides/underneath and fins (some kind of 'breed'? bf);
Lt. orange head & body, white fins (bf) --

Bottom, L to R:
Orange body, dark (armored?) scales on back, white head w/blk spot, white fins (bf, I think...);
White 6", pearly shiny (reg);
Yellow body/fins with black netting back & head, red spot on head (reg);
Cream body & head & fins(w/lt orange @ base), blue/grey back (bf - & armor?);
Darker cream body & fins(w/lt orange @ base), blue/grey back & top of head (bf - & armor?)

 

[fishin4cars]

Hi -- Newbie 'Peepers Mom' here with a baby koi question -- "fishin4cars" was nice enough to try to help me if I sent pics of them, so here is a fairly clear pic with all of them together. If anyone else has an idea what they might be 'called', I'd appreciate knowing. Not terribly important, but it would be fun to know. We chose them because we thought they were pretty, not because we knew anything about them..... LOL!

Top, L to R:
Lt. yellow/shiny white scales & fins (butterfly); Gin Rin Lemon Hariwake butterfly
Yellow/orange head, yellow body/fins & black back netting ('regular' - as in not butterfly); Ki Matsuba standard
Dk blue/grey back & head, orange sides/underneath and fins (some kind of 'breed'? bf); This little guy could change dramatically but appears to be a Hi asagi butterfly. If the color holds to adult this fish will be super nice!
Lt. orange head & body, white fins (bf) --orengi, but could also be called Hariwake butterfly.

Bottom, L to R:
Orange body, dark (armored?) scales on back, white head w/blk spot, white fins (bf, I think...);Doitsu Kujaku Butterfly
White 6", pearly shiny (reg); It's a ogon, could turn more platinum with age, still pretty young to tell exactly what it may do.
Yellow body/fins with black netting back & head, red spot on head (reg) Ki Matsuba but looks like it could change to Hi Matsuba standard, don't count on the orange spot staying, I doubt it will but you might get lucky
Cream body & head & fins(w/lt orange @ base), blue/grey back (bf - & armor?);
Darker cream body & fins(w/lt orange @ base), blue/grey back & top of head (bf - & armor?)

The last two would be considered kikikoryu butterfly if they hold they mettalic coloration. But could also be a Matsukawabake. Time will tell on these two. They should both change as time goes by so watching them grow will be interesting. be sure and save this pic! You'll be surprised how differently some will look in a year. I also added this link, It's a great link to show different colors and help give you a guideline to what the fish could look like, also gives some explanation as to helping you figure out what the different words mean. Example, Hi is orange to bright red, Ki is yellow, Sumi is Black, Doitsu is german or armoured scale as your calling them Ogon is smaller scaling. be sure and check out pic #2 in the asagi, Your butterfly asagi has the potential to look similar to that fish with butterfly fins. Not the prettiest at the moment but could actually be the best fish out of the group in overall development.


http://www.koivillage.com/koiid/pg2.htm

 

[Peepers Mom]

The last two would be considered kikikoryu butterfly if they hold they mettalic coloration. But could also be a Matsukawabake. Time will tell on these two. They should both change as time goes by so watching them grow will be interesting. be sure and save this pic! You'll be surprised how differently some will look in a year. I also added this link, It's a great link to show different colors and help give you a guideline to what the fish could look like, also gives some explanation as to helping you figure out what the different words mean. Example, Hi is orange to bright red, Ki is yellow, Sumi is Black, Doitsu is german or armoured scale as your calling them Ogon is smaller scaling. be sure and check out pic #2 in the asagi, Your butterfly asagi has the potential to look similar to that fish with butterfly fins. Not the prettiest at the moment but could actually be the best fish out of the group in overall development.


http://www.koivillage.com/koiid/pg2.htm

WOW........ Thanks, fishin'! That's a very intense and fascinating website.......!!! I don't think I've seen that many descriptions and photos of koi all in one place! Definitely going to research that one a lot and try to see where my little flock fits in....... may even print it out for my notebook, if I have enough ink..... lol!
I know they will change some, but I assume they're like kids..... ie, go thru the cute baby stage, gangly 'teen' stage, then settle into their final adult characteristics? It definitely will be interesting to watch my little ones develop..... now I can't hardly wait! Definitely better start 'learning the language'..... Cool!!!! :bowdown:

 

[fishin4cars]

LOL, I'm learning, don't quote me on those. some may call some of those by different names, as you'll find as you learn more some are easy to figure out, Some aren't so easy. Sanke and showa for example can be the easiest to tell apart, but can also be confused very easily! LOL I still have problems with those two sometimes. A lot of koi keepers like to keep a Kigoi, chagoi, ochiba, ochiba shigure, or midorigori in with their heard. these are known as the calming koi, they are known for a larger growth, normally not as brightly colored but some do have stand out patterns. I have a Chagoi (Mine is copper/tea colored)butterfly and a Ochiba shigure Mine is silvery grey with yellowish markings. For some reason they become more tame than colored koi, seem to have a calming effect, and are usually the first to come up to feed. to actually be the calming fish they need to be one of the larger fish in the group. Worth while to find one particular one that really attracts you. they aren't the easiest to find in pet stores, most are purchased through other koi dealers, not high priced for the most part and worth every cent you pay for one. Lucky Our butterfly chagoi is one of our favorite fish, hard to see sometimes but when you do the surprise and the tameness of these fish is really something every Koi keeper should enjoy. Glad I could help, You got some great starters, be intresting to see what they turn out like in a year or two.

 

[RSFish1]

Excellent naming of the types Fishin. And follow his advise. Take a picture every month and when you look back 6 months from now you will be surprised at all the changes and things you did not notice change. I hope that one does turn in to a Hi Asagi. I have 2 HI Shusui butterflies, scalesless version of this, and absolutely love them. They ad a flash to the pond in the color scheme. Sit back and enjoy the show!

 

[Peepers Mom]

Thanks, RSFish1! I've been trying to figure out what they all 'might' be and recording that on the photo next to them. I'll see how far I can get, and then post it back and see if you all think I'm at least close, just for fun..... lol! I'm glad I took the pics and will certainly try to get more later on for comparison. I've also been giving them individual 'names' (I know!!! Can't help it, tho..... ha ha!) and putting that on there too. Got some good ones!
I've also been reading up on Chagoi, F4C -- and I really love the way the tea-colored shiny (gin-rin?) ones look! I was thinking about getting one if I can find one, to add to my herd. OH! And, they've ALL started coming up to the top to eat!! I'm really excited about that - I feed them from the bridge, wait for awhile and talk to them, then move to a bench on the side that's only about 5 feet away to observe. They'll hover underneath the food but won't quite come up top yet when I'm right over them, but I'll gradually start moving back closer to the center until they let me stay.
I'm also doing readings every morning and evening at the same time for water quality, and keeping a spreadsheet. Seemed like a good idea... I've been learning a lot about how my pond fluctuates -- the ph is a bit lower in the mornings (about 7.8-8) and a bit higher in the evenings (about 8.2-8.5). My KH is 300 and GH is 160-300, and stays about the same. (I'll be switching over to liquid tests here soon, but using strips now. It might be different...) Water temp was 72f last night and this morning. I'm wondering if the higher ph may be causing a bit of the flashing I see occasionally.

 

[fishin4cars]

Have you added any salt to your water? Ph might have some to do with it but it could be micro parasites or irritated slime coating, All three are concerns to watch but Not life threatening for the most part and will normally subside after the water warms a little more. You can dose your pond with rock salt up to 1 cup per 100 gallons, with no harm to fish and only minimal damage to plants. I would look for large bags at a feed and seed center or tractor supply.The salt helps the koi build up more slime coating, will kill of most microparasites, and will help stabalize PH fluctuations in ponds that have lower GH-KH readings. LOL yours are already on the high side but still in good range, salt isn't going to effect that in your pond at this time. Temps to cause some fluctuations on PH and can cause higher ammonia readings in the late afternoon. This is also due to algae and plants producing CO2 and oxygen so some of this your seeing is really quite normal and not unexpected. Once you run out of the strips it's a good idea to use the drops, they are more accurate and also have a longer shelf life.

 

[Peepers Mom]

Hi, Fishin'..... yes, we've added some salt already, but stopped at about 2/3 the dose - just short of the full amount (to bring 6,000 gallons up to .1) because we're waiting for a salt meter to arrive soon so I can get a good reading before I add the rest. I don't notice the flashing all that much, and not all of them - and seems to be in the evening so far..... just occasionally. The big guy (Piper hasn't done it at all that we've noticed. I'm not paranoid yet, but certainly watching. :lol: Also don't want to harm the plants; I've read that .1% is OK for them, but not much higher....? Water lettuce & hyacinth, but not as worried about those as much as the lilies. (Also noticed baby snails in the water - I'm sure they came in off the plants.... don't care about them so much.)
And I tested the water straight out of the tap, and the KH/GH is exactly the same as in the pond. Ph is also on the alkaline side from the tap. I haven't tested for ammonia at all...... should I? Does that fluctuate with the plants? With only a few small fish in the big pond, I hadn't thought it was needed.
I'm picking up some drops of everything very soon and then I'll have some good comparisons of those vs. the strips. For right now, though, I've got the strips.
Thanks for all the help and advice!!!!!!

Have you added any salt to your water? Ph might have some to do with it but it could be micro parasites or irritated slime coating, All three are concerns to watch but Not life threatening for the most part and will normally subside after the water warms a little more. You can dose your pond with rock salt up to 1 cup per 100 gallons, with no harm to fish and only minimal damage to plants. I would look for large bags at a feed and seed center or tractor supply.The salt helps the koi build up more slime coating, will kill of most microparasites, and will help stabalize PH fluctuations in ponds that have lower GH-KH readings. LOL yours are already on the high side but still in good range, salt isn't going to effect that in your pond at this time. Temps to cause some fluctuations on PH and can cause higher ammonia readings in the late afternoon. This is also due to algae and plants producing CO2 and oxygen so some of this your seeing is really quite normal and not unexpected. Once you run out of the strips it's a good idea to use the drops, they are more accurate and also have a longer shelf life.

 

[fishin4cars]

I would test the source water to find out if you have any ammonia or not, City supplied water that shows a reading of between .25-.50ppm is a good bet it is Chlorimine treated water, well water that is over .25% is NOT good, You would want to prefilter that water before drinking or using in a pond.
Most plants can handle higher than .1%, I have gone as high as .2% with minimal yellowing on some but no direct killing of plants or lily's, But going 3/4 dose should be fine. Some flashing will take place on smaller fish from time to time anyway. Sounds like your doing fine. Monitor, test, observe, and be prepared. test ammonia once in a while, once the filter is working a slight rise in ammonia is a good sign that the filter is due for a good back flushing or cleaning. Sounds like you got a good hold on the pond. :yikesu: