New member, old pond

[oldsarge]

Greetings all, just joined the forum.

My wife and I just purchased a property down here in southwestern Georgia, USA which has both a garden pond and a larger sky pond. The garden pond is what I am interested in here and I have a few questions but first a better description.

• In gound.
• Semi-pear shaped. About 95 sqft surface, best guess average depth 2.5' to 3' (maybe 1,800 to 2,000 gallons).
• Plastic lined.
• Three tiered, one small tier spills into a slightly larger tier which spills into the main pond.
• Approximatly 30 fish, 4 6"-8", the rest 2"-6", most orangish a few white/orange or brown. All are in main pond.
• Populated with what appears to be an adequate amount of aquatic plants.

Sellers took "their" pump and said fish will be OK until we get another this spring.

My questions:

• Is that crazy advice about the pump, do I need to go get one now?
• Do I run the pump all the time or on some kind of schedule?
• What size pump do I need considering the bottom of the main pond is probably at most 4' below the surface of the upper tier?
• The sellers said explicitly to not feed the fish until spring, is this right? We've just passed through a cold spell but now we're having 65+ degree days and the fish are swarming at the surface.
• What do we need to do in the way of cleaning the pond?

The fish appear to be healthy but the water is really dark. I think they have some kind of "bluing" added to it. Is that good?

Your advice is gratefully welcomed.

 

[JohnHuff]

Welcome, old sarge!

Getting right to the point here:

• Is that crazy advice about the pump, do I need to go get one now?
• 50/50. I turn off my pump in the Winter, but plenty of other people don't. Depending on how cold it is down there, you may or may not want to get wet and dirty. But you can always look for one now to see if you can one on sale.

• Do I run the pump all the time or on some kind of schedule?
• All the time.

• What size pump do I need considering the bottom of the main pond is probably at most 4' below the surface of the upper tier?
• You need to get one based on the volume. I will defer to others here.

• The sellers said explicitly to not feed the fish until spring, is this right? We've just passed through a cold spell but now we're having 65+ degree days and the fish are swarming at the surface.
• This depends your weather. You should only feed once the temps get consistently above 55F or so. I generally don't feed my fish for 5-6 months here. Stop in Fall and don't start again until Spring.

• What do we need to do in the way of cleaning the pond?
• Do you know what kind of filtration system you have? The pump is only part of the system. The pump needs to feed water into a filter that 1) biologically converts toxic waste into less toxic waste and 2) mechanically filter suspended solids from the water. It can be as simple as a bucket with filter material in it. Do you have any pics of your pond and where the pump was?

The fish appear to be healthy but the water is really dark. I think they have some kind of "bluing" added to it. Is that good?
--- I'm sure that's just due to the depth of the pond/liner/algae. Dye or any coloring agent is never added to the pond.

This is a great forum and I'm sure more people will be here shortly with more comments.
PS
Sorry about funky editing, but we just got a new format, still adjusting to it.
And ya, the sellers should not have taken "their" pump unless it was in the seller's agreement, but oh well, you'll probably be better off starting from scratch.

 

[sissy]

In georgia I would get a pump now .What size is the pond and how deep is will determine the size of the pump .What is your budget for a pump also and think about watts of power as they can be expensive to run .I just bought a laguna as a second pump on ebay 130 watts of power webbs online actually .best warrenty .You will need a liquid test kit also .What kind of filter and how high does you pump need to pump .Pumps go by head of what pump can pump .I agree mean of them to take the pump and sure not right if it was not in the contract demand it back using your realtor to contact there realtor .

 

[sissy]

or ask for money to buy a new one .I think it was koiguy who told me about webbs online and I went to there ebay store as it was cheaper to buy it there .199 at there store and 179 and ebay

 

[shakaho]

What kind of fish do you have? Are these goldfish or baby koi?

Is there a filter or did the previous owners take the filter as well as the pump?

If you don't feed until spring, your fish should be OK without a pump and filter. But I don't see any reason to wait until spring to get a pump and build/buy a filter. If you do feed, you should do something about filtration.

 

[Jason]

Can you provide some pictures of the pond Old Sarge? Pics are always helpful

 

[Lisak1]

At the very least I would see if they former owner would tell you what brand/size pump they had installed. If they took it with them they must have thought it was a good one, right?

We learned (the hard way, naturally) that in real estate certain things are considered customary to stay with the house and don't need to be named in the contract (toilets, cabinets, sinks). But other things are optional (light fixtures, appliances) and unless the contract specifies that they stay, the owner is within their right to take them. I have no clue where a pond and it's parts would fall in the real estate contract world, but my guess is it's one of those in the second category. Again, only my opinion... talk to your real estate pro for a opinion that's worth something. But if you got a lovely pond that works well, I would say consider the pump a small investment in a lifetime of enjoyment!

 

[j.w]

oldsarge
I have my pump and filter running all year long. Zone 7 here tho and we don't get a lot of freeze here. When I first had my fish I did not feed them for years. Goldfish which that's what it sounds like are yours don't need feeding. They can eat whatever they can catch that falls into their pond whether it be worms,bugs,algae or some of the plants. My pond is about 2400gals and 3&1/2 ft deep. I am using a Pondmaster 2400gph mag drive submersible pump that has been running since 2001: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Danner-2400-GPH-Pond-Mag-Pump/19269471#ProductDetail You should start shopping for one now so you have it soon. I like the power savings on the Laguna and I am looking into the future on getting one of these: http://www.webbsonline.com/Item/F40352 I Have just a simple filter: http://www.matalausa.com/prod48.html I hooked 2 of those together and it's working great.

There is such a thing as adding dye to the pond water. Ha, Ha just ask sissy as she was helping friends that put it in their pond and it turned her arms blue http://info.organicpond.com/pond-dye-pond-dyes/

 

[Catfishnut]

Welcome Oldsarge!

Congrats on your new pond with attached home!

Dr. Sir John Huff and Shakako bring up a very valid point. Why did the previous owners take the pump? And did they take the filter, too? I find that highly strange. To me, that is like selling a car and removing the gas tank and fuel pump when you hand it over. "Don't worry, it won't hurt the engine." Of course it won't, it just won't run.

I would certainly get a new pump right soon and investigate the presence of a filter. The immediate problem here is not the survival of the fish in the pond, but the survival of the beneficial bacteria in the filter system. If water flow through the biological conversion portion of the filter system is shut off, the beneficial bacteria within it will starve and suffocate and die. They need oxygen and food (ammonia/nitrites) and temps above freezing to survive. If the bacteria die, then when the water temps rise and the fish begin eating and expelling waste again, the water quality will drop and the fish may be in peril until new bacteria move in.

This is hence my answer to another question regarding operating the pump. It should be 24 / 7 / 365 for the benefit of the bacteria in the biological conversion area of the filter.

Do not feed the fish when the water is cold. If the water is not above 50 to 60 deg F consistently, the fish will not normally eat and the food will simply decay on the bottom and add pollutants to the pond water. Not to mention simply being a waste of the food.

The pump size will be more dependant upon the efficiency and size of the filter system and not the size of the pond. I estimate (and I am using the SWAG method of estimation here) that as low as a 500 gph and up to a 1200 gph pump should be sufficient for the size of your pond. The water passing through the filter system requires sufficient retention time so that the bacteria can extract the ammonia and nitrites from the water before it is returned to the pond.

Of course, a faster water flow rate would simply mean that the same water would pass through the filter more often, thus negating to some extent the retention time requirement. So it really boils down to the size of the filter and the plumbing. How much water velocity or flow rate can it handle without overflowing or restricting the pump.

FYI: The SWAG method is an acronym for Scientific Wild Ass Guess.

Gordy

 

[Mmathis]

Welcome! One question and one comment.

First, the question: what is a sky pond?

Comment: if you don't already have one, you need to get a water test kit (liquid is preferred to strips -- more reliable results). Test for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, and pH. Some folks say they don't test during the winter, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to go ahead and get some readings. Also, if you use city water, be sure to keep some dechlorinator on hand. OK, that was 2 comments. Sorry. Can't count.

 

[shakaho]

I just assumed it was a reflecting pond, although I've never heard the term.

 

[addy1]

Welcome to our group!

There are a lot of very knowledgeable and helpful people here. We will help you get your new pond running well. Pictures help a lot in "seeing" what you are dealing with

 

[Dave 54]

Strange the owners should take the pump with them , make sure the pump you replace it with is man enough to take the gallonage of the pond.
The blue water has me a tad worried , it may be that they were treating these fish prior to their moving out , so you need to keep an eye on all the fish looking for any sores that appear or are already on them ( if this is the case we can talk you through treating them on the forum) .
Pumps should be run 24/7 365 days a year unless stopped for maintenance , you need to buy a good book to get you into the swing of things pond wise and more importantly fish health wise , buy a copy of the Interpet Manual oof fish health off of Amazon and this book will explain all you need to know about all aspects of fish keeping and fish health including water testing which is an important part of fish keeping, as well as regular partialwater
changes and regular filter maintenance .
Weve been keeping koi for the past 27 years so you can get past the innitial novice time provided you learn about the hobby .
Remember this goldfish do not just live for a few years then die nor do koi , they are not a throwaway fish they live if well looked after in a well maintained pond 40 years for goldfish and upwards of 80 years for koi
Our two oldest koi weve had 27 years they are most probably a tad older than that from when hatched at the breeding farms in Japan
Welocome and enjoy your hobby oldsarge ( is that because your former army )?
Royal Navy my self lol

Dave

 

[sissy]

I suspect that blue is the pond dye a lot use in warmer climates to block sunlight and my neighbor used it and I ended up with smurf arms when pump failed .I hope that they come back on so we can understand better what they are dealing with and help them get back to a normal pond so they can enjoy there new home and new pond .I guess they are busy

 

[oldsarge]

We may have mostly a goldfish pond but from the pictures I've seen in a google image search at least two or three look more like koi than goldfish. Two are basically white with patches of orange and smaller patches of black. Another is mostly brown. These three all have fin shape that look more like those in the koi pictures. I wish I had pictures but we're still moving a little at a time. I'll try to get some the next time we're there if the fish are at the surface.

Follwing my posting yesterday I did some research. I think the system holds about 1,800 to 2,000 gallons so I probably need a 2,000+ GPM pump with a total head of 4+ feet to move the entire volume every hour when it's runnning which in our climate might be 7/25 all year round.

I hate the redneck looking "shower curtain" liner. It's not really a shower curtain but I want to replace the edging with stone or something that'll hide it.

Here's some pics. Enjoy and I look forward to your comments and guidance on the pump and if we need a filter or just improve the bog.

Here's a picture of the entire system. The upper tier is in the upper right corner. It's filled with aquatic plants so I assume it's a half hearted effort at a "bog filter."

A better angle of all three tiers.

The upper two tiers. Water flows under the flat rock middle left to get to the main pond.

Our "sky pond" is a depression in the landscape that fills with water but is not continually fed by any means other than rainfall or stream overflow. Ours (below) gets very low or goes dry during periods of minimal rainfall. I would like to sink a well to maintain it but I first need to find where the water is leaking out because it lowers faster than evaporation can account for. The well cost could well exceed $5K but being a half hearted "prepper" I wouldn't mind having the water reserve.