New Member Seeking New Pond Advice

[Minto Flats]

Hello to all from Colorado… :bye2:

First, I must say, I’m impressed with the overall quality and helpfulness of some of advice I’ve read in here. I’ve been “lurking” on this forum for a couple weeks now…in quest of the ideal (if one exists) 2-barrel filtration system for a new fish pond project.

The closest member configuration I could find in regard to what I have in mind was illustrated by “Schroeder1959” (3 November, 2009): https://www.gardenpondforum.com/topic/1067-diy-biofilter/page-5

But my primary questions are:

1. Will this same configuration work when the barrels are partially (mostly) below pond water level (Schroeder’s filtrations system was above ground)?

2. Would it be more efficient in this configuration to place the pump (external) at the inlet or outlet side of the filter barrels (Schroeder’s pump was at the outlet)?

3. In observance of Hector The Welder’s First Rule of the Universe, “There’s something wrong with everything,” what is wrong with the configuration I’ve drawn up (attached)? View attachment POND & EQUIP SCHEMATIC (PORTRAIT).pdf

4. The primary reasons why I want the filter system to be mostly below water level are: 1) less head to waterfall (under 5 ft.); 2) with gravity feed, pump should never run dry (no priming involved). The main pitfall I can foresee out of this arrangement, however, is the possibility of a less robust water flow through the filters. IOW, would the bottom vortex tubing work effectively, or would the water in the barrels just mostly sit there and “churn?”


As an overview, my proposed fish pond (undecided whether goldfish, koi or a little of both) will be approximately 1500 gallons, about 7’ x 11’ x 4’ (max. depth). I’m planning on a 2500 gal external pump, bottom drain (with aeration) and some sort of skimmer. I want the aerator (from air pump) for whenever the waterfall is not in use (winter).

Appreciate any help/suggestions I can get—even if you tell me I’m all wet! :bowdown:

 

[DrCase]

I don't think the water in the filter would know if it is above ground or below
The drain would be a issue in the ground
I would want the filter outlet high enough to feed my water fall by gravity

 

[HTH]

About pipe sizing. The stuff from the bottom drain to the first filter is a bit tricky. You want a big pipe to ensure low resistance to flow. But you want a small pipe to ensure the water moves fast enough to keep the solids moving. I have no canned answer.

You are going to want to test the flow prior to burying pipes where possible.. The water level in the barrels will drop till there is suffient head between the pond and the barrels to sustain the flow of the pump. I would want something to stop the pump is the filters clogged. Maybe add a 3rd chamber with a float valve..

Which swamp cooler media are you using ? When I suggested aspen I got poo poo'ed.

 

[Becky]

Hello and welcome aboard! :wave:

 

[Minto Flats]

I don't think the water in the filter would know if it is above ground or below
The drain would be a issue in the ground
I would want the filter outlet high enough to feed my water fall by gravity

I see the first and last comments, but what do you mean by the drain being an issue in the ground?

Thanks.

 

[Minto Flats]

About pipe sizing. The stuff from the bottom drain to the first filter is a bit tricky. You want a big pipe to ensure low resistance to flow. But you want a small pipe to ensure the water moves fast enough to keep the solids moving. I have no canned answer.

You are going to want to test the flow prior to burying pipes where possible.. The water level in the barrels will drop till there is suffient head between the pond and the barrels to sustain the flow of the pump. I would want something to stop the pump is the filters clogged. Maybe add a 3rd chamber with a float valve..

Which swamp cooler media are you using ? When I suggested aspen I got poo poo'ed.

That's a good idea--to address the temporary water flow in the event of clogged filters. As for a float valve, the only one I have planned (not shown in the schematic) would be an autofill device for the pond itself. Not use as to how to encorporate a float valve into what you describe.

The swamp cooler would be the synthetic kind--great water flow-thru, without the seasonal decompostion. I ceased the usage of aspen in our home swamp cooler because of this.

 

[Minto Flats]

Hello and welcome aboard! :wave:

Hello, Becky, and thanks for the welcome. Love your avatar...reminds me of my all-time favorite musical, My Fair Lady!

 

[addy1]

to our group!

A lot of thought in your pond design. With the number of gallons, the flagstone, stick with goldfish/ shubunkins, they would do better than koi.

 

[DrCase]

I would separate the 2 bottom drains , Your pump would pull from the first drum drain up into the 2nd drum drain

 

[HTH]

That's a good idea--to address the temporary water flow in the event of clogged filters. As for a float valve, the only one I have planned (not shown in the schematic) would be an autofill device for the pond itself. Not use as to how to encorporate a float valve into what you describe.

The swamp cooler would be the synthetic kind--great water flow-thru, without the seasonal decompostion. I ceased the usage of aspen in our home swamp cooler because of this.

Float valve was a poor choice of words. I am talking about a float cutoff switch like you see on sump pumps. It would turn off the pump as needed so the pump would never run dry. The alternative is to design the filters so when clogged the water bypassed them. This gives you some extra time till the pump input clogs.

The synthetic swamp cooler media I recall has soap like stuff in it. I expect that you are talking about some other stuff.

We switched back to aspen because with our water the pads get changed every year. We end up running the old pads till it gets really hot then switch them out for new ones. I have even wondered if the old crusty pads would work for filters.

 

[Minto Flats]

to our group!

A lot of thought in your pond design. With the number of gallons, the flagstone, stick with goldfish/ shubunkins, they would do better than koi.

Thanks for the advice (and the welcome), addy. Y'know, I have been walking the fence in regards to whether or not I'm ready to get into koi fish. Frankly, I'd never heard of shubunkins before, but I did a search for them...and, from the pics I've seen, they are surprisingly colorful--and appear to grow to a far more manageable size than koi.

Speaking of size, one thing that has occurred to me is the potentiality of smaller fish (or fries) being sucked into the bottom drain. Can you, or others in here, share any experiences with this. I have not found any topics regarding the loss of fish to the drain (and into a filter), so any info that you can provide will be most helpful.

I don’t have any equipment installed yet (still in the digging process), but would like to take any preventative measures before everything is set in “stone.” From what I’ve seen about bottom drains online (not much in the way of details), they could have, say, a 3/4-inch opening around the drain perimeter—which would be lethal for small fish!

I did read somewhere about using a nylon netting—but, if the mesh is too closely woven, this would appear to make it prone for frequent clogging.

Thanks,
Phil

 

[Minto Flats]

I would separate the 2 bottom drains , Your pump would pull from the first drum drain up into the 2nd drum drain

Will do, and thanks.

 

[Minto Flats]

Float valve was a poor choice of words. I am talking about a float cutoff switch like you see on sump pumps. It would turn off the pump as needed so the pump would never run dry. The alternative is to design the filters so when clogged the water bypassed them. This gives you some extra time till the pump input clogs.

The synthetic swamp cooler media I recall has soap like stuff in it. I expect that you are talking about some other stuff.

We switched back to aspen because with our water the pads get changed every year. We end up running the old pads till it gets really hot then switch them out for new ones. I have even wondered if the old crusty pads would work for filters.

Ahh, I see what you mean, re cutoff switch...will definitiely add one.

As for the swamp cooler media, I'm talking about those blue sponge-like pads they sell at Home Depot (only in drier regions where these coolers are practical). As far as I know they contain no "soapy-like" substances--just the synthetic material itself.

 

[HTH]

Ahh, I see what you mean, re cutoff switch...will definitiely add one.

As for the swamp cooler media, I'm talking about those blue sponge-like pads they sell at Home Depot (only in drier regions where these coolers are practical). As far as I know they contain no "soapy-like" substances--just the synthetic material itself.

I expect there are several brands. The blue ones we had definitely were laced with something soaplike.

Regarding fry and drains. When really small the fry spend all their time hiding. A noodle strainer aka colander can be used but it will limit the size of stuff that goes down the drain and may even plug.

 

[sissy]

welcome why lurk we don't bite (well most of us don't ) :cheerful:
[sharedmedia=core:attachments:52794]I use them all the time