New pond construction. The Water Garden Pond

fishin4cars

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I started a thread in showcase but since I can't get any added info or input I decided to start a thread that could also have interaction with fellow members. I have a small issue I am dealing with on my new build I would like to hear some input on as far as bog filtration as I am still new to this type bog filter although my old pond also had one it was more a flow through type with floating plants instead of a upflow gravel type.
So here is my problem. I started off with 12 inches of gravel on top of the pipe, total capacity of the bog is aprox. 1200 gallons or 5 cubic yards. I had about 4.5 cubic yards of gravel in the bog and the depth of the gravel was right at 12" but there was water still on top of the gravel. We started washing and adding gravel and are now at 5.5 cubic yards and 14.5" thick in gravel and the water still keeps coming above the gravel and is close to over flowing out in a couple of spots. I'm really worried about algae growth. Tonight I formed small steams in the top of the gravel and the water level dropped and seems to be working more like I want. Does anyone have any suggestions? BTW I'm pumping aprox, 1750 gph at 3' head for my head pressure IF there is no additional restrictions which considering I'm pumping through 14.5" of gravel I'm sure there is some additional loss. How much I'm not sure but there seems to be a nice flow as the water fall has a really nice effect coming from the bog. I'll try and post additional pics tomorrow as I just did the final touches tonight and have not yet had a chance to take pics. I also tried using a bigger pump of 8000 gph to help rinse the gravel and I get the same results in the gravel only with more waterfall exit flow.
I can drop down to a small pump but then I would have to greatly reduce the input size of the pipe and I have already run all of it in 2" pipe and buried it in the gravel bed.
 

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addy1

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I have some of the green algae on the top of my pea gravel. Last year all I did was turn the bog off spray with some peroxide, kept it at bay last year. I have 1/2 or more dry pea gravel, but some has water above it. With our low flow pump and my bogs elsewhere, I had low flow pumps running through them, it never went above the pea gravel. With this bigger pump, I do have water running above the pea gravel. I was going to add gravel, but if yours just makes the water go higher, not going to do that. My back wall of the bog is not high enough to handle more water. As the plants have grown, this spring, the algae has been decreasing, the gravel is getting shaded. If any of it makes it into the pond it just disappears, it is not string or even really that hair stuff, more of the green slimy stuff.

I did like you, put in little river paths, which worked fine. My problem currently is the explosive plant growth this year. Blocking one of the main paths back to the pond. I need to go out and do some pulling of plants.
With all the plants growing it has backed up some more water over the pea gravel, but you sure can see the water flowing up and out of the gravel everywhere, I just need to make some paths for the water to flow. Mine is 27 feet long with the waterfall towards the one end of the bog, paths are important lol. The birds sure do love it.

The first summer, fishin, no green stuff, the second summer none until late summer, this summer more has grown, but also two years of debris has settled on the gravel, leaves, dust, flowers, etc. That may be helping it take off.

Fishin, talking with hubby, he just suggested putting a perforated pipe running down the center of my bog, right below the pea gravel to path the water towards the waterfall. My gravel is 2.5 feet deep so I have plenty of room to do that. I have kept the center clear so I can walk in there to work on it. Going to do some plant moving around and see how things work out.

Ow still going to pull some of the bog plants....................you want some? got tons They sure are pretty when they bloom.

Even with this minor issue, love the bog, my pond water stays just perfect, no algae grows in the pond, crystal clear water.
 
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1750 gph shouldn't be a problem.

You're right, you don't want water on the surface. Because of algae like you said but also because most of the the water movement won't be thru gravel. Water on the surface tells you it isn't working. In an old bog it's the sign that the bog needs to be cleaned/replaced.

The level of the gravel (maybe sides of the bog) has to be brought up or the outflow lowered. I like the top of the bog to be at least 12" above the surface of whatever it flows into. Not sure what you have.

Pipes
I know they seem like they would distribute the water over a wider area, but there's a Catch-22. Small enough holes in the pipe and the right number so just enough water can get thru to get good distribution. Too many holes and/or too big and the water will just take the easiest route. The catch is the right number/size clogs prematurely, too many/big and reduced distribution. There was just a thread about someone's bog pipe clogging way too early.

Even with good distribution you're probably not increasing the amount of gravel water is going thru. I don't know your exact layout, but in general for example, some water travels down the pipe to the far end, up thru maybe 15" of gravel and a little ways more out of the bog. Traveling thru the pipe is path of least resistance, sometimes even when there's standing water above the gravel.

I know it seems counter intuitive but no pipe is best imo. Pump water onto the surface of the bog at one end and let it find it's own path to the outflow.

Single source, single exit and the water will flow just like a subsurface river, meandering around as clogs occur. Your entire bog would have to clog before needing a clean out so you get a much longer life span.

Increasing contact...
If you do want to increase water to gravel contact the way to do that is to make channels of gravel, like a stream. In a rectangular bog you make trenches, maybe 12" to 18" wide and deep. The ends every other trench is connected so you get a kind of jigzag patterrn. Lay the liner over the trenches, and then gravel. You can pleat the liner to form the trench walls. The pleat will flop over at first, but are made vertical as gravel is added, the gravel will kept it vertical. To connect trench ends you flop it over a bit, basically a pleat on each end running perpendicular to the trench pleats.

I don't know the size of your bog, but say 16'x8'. You could get maybe 8 trenches giving you a water/gravel contact distance of about 128'. Way better than you could ever hope for with a pipe distribution system. And you know for a fact water is traveling that distance, until it starts overflowing trenches which again tells you it's time to replace/clean.

Whether you want to do that or not should depend on the the bog's main purpose.

1. Maximum surface for contact with bacteria. Use trenches. But there are better filters for this, ones with better O2.

2. Mechanical filter. No trenches, no pipes is best. It is the clogging of the bog that creates the smaller openings which traps more stuff. The bog will get better and better over time trapping smaller and smaller particles. I also thing this is the best setup for planting.
 

addy1

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I had bogs with the water just pumped onto the surface, the water stayed on the surface, dirt built up, the easiest route for that water was over the top of the gravel.
I used pipes, with slots cut in them. You can see the water coming up and out of the gravel though out the bog. It does not just come out at the end of the piping.

My pond stays perfect,so I am my bog as the only filter. No green water, no algae, no bad water tests.

My last bog ran for over 10 years without needing a clean out/replacement, then I moved from that house.

The thread about the bog pipe clogging was due to plant roots getting into the piping.

But like I always say I only post about what I have done and what has worked wonderfully for me and my pond. No uv, no green water, no string algae bloom, no algae on the plants in the pond, no water issues, ammonia, etc.

A little algae on the bog gravel is a non issue, to have the ease of care my pond requires. Every other week or so spray out the leaf basket. Maybe twice in the summer, net the bottom. My only issue is the plants need to be groomed a little. They never really died back this winter.
 

fishin4cars

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Addy, I'm with you, I have tried single input and flow by type and I wasn't happy with the results. Lots of muck accumulated in low lying spots and once this started I started fighting hair algae outbreaks far mor frequently. This is only a partial filter, I will also be running a large filter fall unit with matala and bio-balls. (same unit that has been running my previous pond for the last year and a half. This should be plenty of filtration for this pond once the koi get moved to their new pond. It's only a temporary home for them right now then this pond will only house a light load of goldfish and primarily plants. This is a test for the Koi pond as I am considering one for that pond as well but wanted to work through the do's and don't's before building that one. The Koi pond will have considerable more mechanical filtration and a LOT higher bacteria filtration on it. Here's a few pics of the bog as it is right now. still needing to add more plants and yes Addy, I am interested in getting more variates of plants. I have PLENTY PLENTY to start off with but they are all Taro's and I really wanted some different species to add that I don't already have growing.
waterbug, I did run a test when there was only 12" of gravel in the bogs. I was running clear water and I injected 3cc of methylene blue at the pump to see if the flow was consistent coming up through the gravel. The blue started showing up in the center of the bog first as expected since that is where thee water enters the piping system, a second or so later I started seeing the blue show up all through the pond and it cleared completely out in about 2-3 minutes. Of course the last to clear was farthest away from the fall but even the far end cleared very quickly. Far faster than I expected it to. I also understand that this could change over time as the roots start growing and forming more dense areas for the water to flow through but I wanted to make sure that I wasn't getting far more water through one end than the other and to make sure that I was getting a relative even flow rate.
 

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addy1

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Fishin,
I went out and mucked around in the bog today. Removed some of the plants that were obstructing the flow back into the pond. The water level went back down like I thought it would.

And the green slimy algae stuff is almost gone. It has been going away since the plants have started to take off.
 

taherrmann4

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Fishin your build looks great. I have been watching your thread as I have started collecting rock for my bog wall and need lots of them. Too cheap to buy rock so I go out and dig them up around my home. Hopefully I will get started in a few weeks.

I see that you have the water being pumped into the middle of the piping in your bog vs starting at one end, why is this? Are both pipes on either end for clean out?

Thanks
 
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Larkin, Your pond and bog are amazing! Have you moved over your fish yet and are you planning another pond too?
 

fishin4cars

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Todd, I decided to go in the middle with two wash outs. Was it a good idea? I'm not sure. Neither wash pipe as you can see has anything coming out. I will valve them later but for now they are just pipes sticking out. I've tried the 2500 gph and a 8000 gph and saw very little difference except water flow out the water fall. The bog on the Koi pond will be in on one side out the other so i can compare the two configirations. The one on the koi pond will be about half as big as the water garden one.
Keith, Yes there are going to be two ponds. For now the water garden pond will be the holding pond for all the fish. Then once the Koi pond is complete it will become a lily and goldfish pond only. The water garden is 8650 gallons not including the bog. I'm guessing total water volumne to be just shy of 9000 gallons. The Koi pond will be aprox. the same volumne but deeper and smaller foot print. The first five fish were added today. All are doing good. Moving the filters from the old ponds and some more fish tommorrow. hope to have them all moved and photograhed by the end of the week. As you can see, not much going on with the koi pond yet.
 

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addy1

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You shouldn't get water coming out of the wash out pipes, fishin, if you did then you would know you did not have enough holes in your pipes or they are totally blocked
 

pondlover

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Larkin your pond is looking great. What a great bog. I like the bigger rocks you've placed in some areas. What are the plants that you have in that area? I'm still absorbing all the information on bogs and can already tell that I wish I had made mine bigger. There seems to be such a great variety of plants to go in a bog. Looking forward to more pictures.
 

addy1

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His does look great, mine used to look like that until all the plants started growing and taking over. I should pull more, but I love the growth and flowers that come
 

fishin4cars

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Thanks for the compliments! Things are really starting to take shape now. Still have a lot of work to do but you'll be able to somewhat tell what the plan is now. The DYI filter will stay there for the next 6-10 weeks until every thing balances, then I'll swap it to the koi pond to help seed it when I crank it up. The small decking is very temporary, It will eventually be a 8'x8' feeding deck the will hang out over the water to give a place that is shaded for the fish to get under as we as a place to interact with the fish until the bridge is built between the two ponds. For now the river rock edging is in place but eventually that to will be a area to be able to view both ponds and a place to walk directly down to the natural pond. We planted over 60 iris of different colors around the natural pond. and about 25 in the bog. also got a good portion of the back fill done behind the wall of the bog and planted about 30 hostas that we moved from the old house. Today I planted 20 day lilies on the back side of the pond and still need to move another 20 or so before starting to put the mulch down. in the next pictures I have now made some flower beds around the bog and have a designated place for a weeping Japanese maple. I have wanted one every since I started ponding and I'm spending a little extra effort to make the place the best I can before investing in this plant. Still haven't moved any of my hibiscus collection or the roses. So many plants I want to bring over but many will have to stay.
 

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j.w

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Looks like you are having fun w/ your new property and it is really looking nice. I enjoy watching you add everything piece by piece. What a nice place you are making for yourself and family. The hisbiscus seeds I planted last yr that you sent all made it through the winter in my garage. I've now placed them outside still in pots.
 

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