new pond digger from central calif

Discussion in 'Introductions' started by pond42sliders, Nov 11, 2012.

  1. pond42sliders

    pond42sliders

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    Hello everyone,
    I don't know where to start,,,so I'll begin with this all started about 20 years ago when I aquired an abandoned turtle. Then the turtle needed a friend, and then I needed a pond. I moved 4 times since that first turtle, but never got that pond...until 3 months ago.
    Obviously, you can tell I love my 20 year old turtles, they finally got their pond! But, I wanted to be able to share it, so I could enjoy it as well. That meant alot of careful planning...but I still haven't a clue to what I'm doing!
    Anyways, I do not have any help (though I did have the pond built by supposed to be proffesional ponders...but the liner around the bog was cut to short, as well as a couple other areas), i'm in my later half of 50 and have been left with finishing the pond project on my own. But, I'm ok with that, I just need some help and advice from people who know what they are talking about.
    Here's what I have...it's 9 by 11 feet with a skimmer running to the waterfall which spills over in two places. One falls in to the pond and a smaller flow spills into the bog. My turtles can not get to the top of the falls or into the bog at all. Nor, can they escape from the pond, except to bask on rocks and they have a small beach area to get out and roam a bit.
    I can't put starter plants in the pond, as the turtles will munch. So I want to grow them elsewhere, like in the bog, till big enough to transfer over to the pond...I think. Like i said, I need some help...

    Susan

    Here's a couple pic's. But right now i'm dealing with the bog burts out because...well I'll take that elsewhere. Thanks for having me and I've already picked up some excellent tips here on the forum.
     

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    pond42sliders, Nov 11, 2012
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  2. pond42sliders

    callingcolleen1 mad hatter

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    Looks like the Turtles are going to be spoiled!! WELCOME!! :)
     
    callingcolleen1, Nov 11, 2012
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  3. pond42sliders

    Ruben Miranda I am so confused

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    Hello
    Welcome
    I can see what you are saying about the liner being cut to short, the pro's should know that a 2' over run on liner is always a good thing for run off and all.

    What kinda of turttles do you have
    And yes they eat distroy my plants to even if they a big plants.
    If you want plants you need to think hardy and strong.

    For me Lillies and others just did not work they either ate them or broke them off killing them.

    I would love to see a pic of where (Turttles) go and sun bath that you built and how you did it.

    Ruben
     
    Ruben Miranda, Nov 11, 2012
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  4. pond42sliders

    j.w I Love my Goldies

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    [​IMG] Susan
     
    j.w, Nov 11, 2012
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  5. pond42sliders

    mtpond

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    Welcome to the forum Susan.
     
    mtpond, Nov 11, 2012
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  6. pond42sliders

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    [​IMG] to our group!

    Hang around, there are a lot of smart ponders here that will gladly help you out.
     
    addy1, Nov 12, 2012
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  7. pond42sliders

    callingcolleen1 mad hatter

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    Find a someone who has a pond without turtles, and maybe they can give you large chunks of plants that they have too much of for free! I knew people who had turtles at one time that I would give plants to, saved me from having to chuck them and the turtles were very happy! Either that of get a tub for fast growing pond plants like floating water hyacinths and start them in tub and throw extra to turtles!
     
    callingcolleen1, Nov 12, 2012
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  8. pond42sliders

    fishin4cars True friends just call me Larkin Moderator

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    Welcome aboard Susan, Nice Turtle pond. A easy way to get plants going is start with a plastic barrel about 12-18" deep put some pond water in, wait till spring and grab a few water lettuce. They will out grow a 4 foot tub in a few months. Turtles love to snack on them and they are hardy enough to survive with them for some time. Just not winter hardy. On your bog, I would try and block the flow to the bog area. Move the blocks where the liner is short in to give you a little more liner to cap off with. Then remove most if not all that rock in the bottom of the stream area. They are not needed and will be a muck magnet in a flow through. Do place a few at the end just before it returns in the pond. This will help keep the plants in the bog until they naturally start growing into the pond itself. Unblock the water flow at the to once the liner is secure and hidden. Then add water lettuce, parrots feather, water celery, water Hyacinths, or some similar floating type plant, these will grow and act as great natural filters, AND they will grow out into the pond and give the turtles a snack to munch on. I had a similar area on my old pond and although not a true bog it works extremely well at helping keep water clear and adds a nice attractive color and balance to the pond.
    Do you have any fish? If not and you want something to try with them, try rosy reds. they sell them as feeder fish in many petstores. Very cheap fish. Throw a dozen or two in the pond and they will reproduce two or three times a year. they make a nice school and live about 14 months. As they get weak, turtles will naturally remove those they are getting ready to naturally die and the babies start the cycle over. They make a great balance for a turtle pond and are great indicators of water quality as they will come to the surface if oxygen gets low. they will start dying off long before the turtles would be effected if something started going wrong and give you a chance to water change or correct before they got harmed.
     
    fishin4cars, Nov 12, 2012
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  9. pond42sliders

    pond42sliders

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    Thanks for the warm welcome, everyone. I'm a bit overwhelmed with the bog problem right now...don't know exactly what I should do. But, I'm gonna look around the forum a bit, to find the proper place to post about it. Thank you, also for all the tips i got just on my first intro post. I don't feel so alone now...and can actually feel a sence of calm coming on.
    Also, I will post a couple more recent pics, with the turtles enjoying their...well, I'm sure they feel is heaven. And, I really did build this pond for those very spoiled Red eared Sliders :)

    Peace and Good Cheers, Susan...
     
    pond42sliders, Nov 12, 2012
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  10. pond42sliders

    sissy sissy

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    welcome and can i borrow some of your neat rocks :razz: Nice pond and boy it took long enough huh .
     
    sissy, Nov 13, 2012
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  11. pond42sliders

    Ruben Miranda I am so confused

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    Hello
    I have a idea and or suggestion on the liner prob you have.
    I hope you don't mind got a little bored and I like to help.
    I downloaded your pic and pointed out would could be a problem now or in the future.


    pondtree-Sugestion.jpg
    1. (Brown arrow) left side of stream
    it looks like there is liner over lapping
    You can put a few more rocks over it and pin it down Not sure but if the water backs up you could end up with a leak and arrosion.

    2. (Red arrow) Right side
    This could be a bigger problem
    For example if you get a heavy rain and it pushes that liner down in to the stream and goes below the water line the pond water could flow out draining your pond.
    A possiable fix I see rock on the other side of it is that vey tall rock or is it like only 2 or 3 inches high.
    If it is stack that high It looks like you could take one layer off pull the liner over it and stack the other rock on top of it holding it in place and hideing it.

    If that rock is already very tall (what we see in the pick is there tops) then if you could bring in something not as tall say 3 inches high lay that down and pull the liner on top of them
    and put the old rock on top of the liner.

    I hope I am making sence and this helps

    Ruben
     
    Ruben Miranda, Nov 14, 2012
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  12. pond42sliders

    Fishylove

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    WELCOME!! :wave:
     
    Fishylove, Nov 14, 2012
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  13. pond42sliders

    Becky Administrator

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    Lucky turtles! Welcome to the forums :)
     
    Becky, Nov 15, 2012
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  14. pond42sliders

    pond42sliders

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    Finally have some time to join in here...like I mentioned already, I don't have any help. In other words I live with one dog and two turtles, plus I am somewhat disabled. I had one knee replaced last year, and now my other knee is getting pretty bad. Not bad enough to what I did to the other one...cuz that's not going to be happening EVER again! I don't care how bad it gets...I'll grow Poppies first!

    Anyways, thank you Rueben for doing that with my picture. That was exactely what i was going to try and address before putting the pond back together. Here's another pic of that problem with the liner, but should I start another thread somewhere else on the forum, concerning this issue?
    pond pics 048.jpg

    pond pics 054.jpg

    Here's what the pond people did, to the liner edge of the bog, before I filled it...
    pond pics 059.jpg

    So I took the top layer of blocks off, but only just around the bog. I took too many off around the far end and got this
    pond pics 012.jpg

    Should I tear down more of the wall all the way up? I have large pieces of liner that was left over from a pond built up at the college. I don't want to have to rebuild the waterfall. But i am aware of the potential problems that could occur, due to the liner being cut off like this. I'm already exsperiencing some of it now.
    I really just need to get my turtles back to the home they came to know as this

    pond pics 067.jpg
    pond pics 064.jpg
    pond pics 010.jpg
     

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    pond42sliders, Nov 18, 2012
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  15. pond42sliders

    CountryEscape

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    WELCOME, Susan!!!
    I had to look at this thread, as I've had painted turtles show up in my ponds last year and this past summer. I live in the country, and have a farm pond on my 6 acres, so that is where they are coming from. I get them for free!!!
    BUT, knowing what I know about turtles, and they are VERY similar in size and strength as the red sliders you have, I cannot imagine that your turtles would not be able to get in and out of your pond. I have straight up and down edges to my pond, and they crawl in and out with ease. I have seen them crawl up and over a 6" tall rounded rock to go from the pond into the bog before. Their claws are very strong, so just a fair warning, but then if you have had these turtles for 20 years, you are well aware of this issue!
    I guess the main thing you need to remember with the liner that got left too short is you now have to deal with it like that. I have a couple of spots in my bogs that the liner is straight up and does not fold over the top edge of the ledge like the other edges. BUT, I put a rock up against it on the inside to keep it from falling into the bog, plus there is pea gravel holding it against the sides, and I've not had any problem. There is only 3" of space from the water edge to the top of the liner. NOT good, I know, but it is closely monitored. That being said, I had a problem in one of my bogs, and have heard of others having this similar problem, where the plant roots grew up and out of the water, and all of a sudden I had water going over the edge. This was a place that the liner was over the top edge and then a rock on top of it. The root system siphoned the water up and over the edge. I pushed the plant away from the side, problem solved.
    So, it looks like you used the landscape stones for your outer wall, but are concerned about the places where the liner did not fold over them. It looked like the liner was high enough from the water level, so it was not that important. It looks like you had the liner well hid with other natural looking rocks. Just remember, wherever the liner is, it has to be well above the water level, then hide it with rocks, make sure it is snug against the rocks and see how things go.
    The only issue I saw that worried me was the piece of liner that was obviously over another piece on the left side of your bog (facing it in the pic). I was hoping that was an extra piece of liner used for extra cushion for that large rock! Anytime you overlap liner, you need to seal that seam well, otherwise water can seep backwards and leak.
    Good luck! We'll all watch and give our hints that we have learned along the way, but glad you joined and are getting pointers from lots of sources!!
     
    CountryEscape, Nov 18, 2012
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  16. pond42sliders

    pond42sliders

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    Hello CountryE,
    Oh boy, do I know how well turtles can climb! Actually had to learn in a very unfortunate way. Let me just say that Mr. Turtle has thouroughly earned the name change, and now goes by Dog Bone Ninja! And, yes...what you are thinking is true. It's an absolute miracle he even survived and had to be pretty much dry docked for 8 months before being allowed to live 24/7 in his tank.
    Trust me, every single rock in the pond was strategically planned and placed with turtle proofing first and foremost in mind. In fact, I had to do alot of rearranging after the initial installation was complete. All of the rocks that surround the main part of the pond are placed so that they would have to climb, or I should say cling upsidedown before they could start to climb over. I litterally spent a year planning on paper how I would design a Turtle safe environment if I built a pond for them. There is a cement border along the wood fence that is 8 inches deep and four inches wide. I wanted to make it so they had acsess to part of a stream or the waterfall, but it just wasn't something that I could do and insure their containment and out of harms way. On the back side of the waterfall are huge rocks that are flat on one side and lean inwards. Then, balanced on top are flat rocks that overlap, again something they would have to be knowing Spiderman's secrets to get out. I haven't built the surrounding fence yet, but it has been planned for Turtle Proofing, also...just in case.
    So back to the bog. I've desided to make it more shallow, so the liner would reach the edge better. Plus, just a tad smaller. I have to be ok with that, and why wouldn't I be...it's an amazing pond for me. But it's a real heaven for the turtles!
    Oh yeah, the liner under the rock is just for extra padding, plus I need a place to be able to put my foot to acsess the waterfall area. The liner for the waterfall lays on top of the pond liner that runs half way up the falls. That liner also drapes over the mound of dirt that seperates and supports the bog, and the bog liner falls down the side of the pond. The bad thing is the way they allowed the liner to bunch up at the bottom of the falls that flows into the bog. There's so much extra liner gathered up, and more than enough to extend and overlap the retaining blocks. I took a picture.
    Should I tear out the rocks to use that excess liner, and then redo the falls? I have no clue what that would be like to do, but if it would be better I am willing to learn...and get it done right.
    I am, and have been concerned about the big rock that stands at the side of the falls. I am worried that the end of that rock, which is not all that smooth and is more pointed than flat (it's not a sharp point, I wouldn't do that, but it's kind of ruff) might potentially cause a hole in the liner. One thing i hate in life is to have a constant worry about something that plain ole should have been checked out when there was a chance to do so...you know what i mean? But if the job of checking is way more than what I should be messing with, then I can learn to grow shadows in my mind to obcsure the nagging wonder of "what if"...
    pond bog 002.jpg pond bog 003.jpg

    I love painted turtles, too!
     
    pond42sliders, Nov 19, 2012
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  17. pond42sliders

    Ruben Miranda I am so confused

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    Hello
    :razz: Yes I had to do the same thing with my turttles, sneaky little guys they are
    I had to move the plants away from the sides plus build a cliff all the away around and the cliff builds in to the pond instead of out.
    I have watched them try to climb out they climb and you can see them pulling there selves up and then as they climb they slowly tip over backwards back in to the pond.

    Looking at that liner
    You might be able to get some of that crease out of it.
    But looks like becuase of the curve of the stream that is why there is a lot of crease/waster there.
    If you can pull some of it out fill it with river rock and add a roll of the stone edge on top of it you should be ok.

    Ruben :razz:
     
    Ruben Miranda, Nov 19, 2012
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  18. pond42sliders

    pond42sliders

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    Oh my goodness...it never occurred to me that I could put the stone edging blocks on top of the liner! But I don't think I can get any of the liner, that's all gathered under the falls, pulled out without moving that one long standing rock. Which will mean pulling out some of the foamed in smaller rock, and, well who knows what else will come out. But, I could still do that, I just don't know anything about building...or rebuilding the waterfall again. The liner might even be bunched up under that piece of overflow slab. Oh dear, i'll take a closer look 2morrow.
    Thank goodness the weather is going to be nice this week. It's hard enough for me to get up and down off the ground under normal conditions. But in the slippery mudd...thank goodness for tall wood fences :redface:
     
    pond42sliders, Nov 19, 2012
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  19. pond42sliders

    CountryEscape

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    Well, in my opinion, if the waterfall liner flows over into the bog, and you want it all smoother, you will have no choice but to remove all the rock in the bog, and on the walls, etc. to smooth it out. Is it worth it? Probably not, unless you plan it out and then get lots of young strong help! I'm 54, built my ponds myself, and when I plan to do something that is going to be heavy and hours of work, I plan it for a pretty and sunny day, then just dig in. BUT, if you are having problems with your knees, it will make it much worse. So, can you enlist some help from neighbor kids or friend's kids, or something? Make them a nice lunch for "payment"! You'd be surprised how many kids need to do "community service" projects for school, and would love to help you out.
    The other thing that bothers me is that you have your liner falling into the pond. I think I have that at the bottom of my stream, so can I assume your pond liner goes up a ways into the waterfall and/or bog, to keep the water from seeping up the liner and seeping out of the pond? Just a thought, want to make sure if you pull the waterfall/bog apart, to make sure you have enough overlap for that not to happen.
    Good luck with whatever you decide to do!
     
    CountryEscape, Nov 19, 2012
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  20. pond42sliders

    callingcolleen1 mad hatter

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    Awe.., you such a good turtle "mommy" ! Had a look at the work you have been doing to the bog, looking good, little grey bricks stacked nice, and it appears that your getting around pretty good with the "knees" and all. :)
     
    callingcolleen1, Nov 19, 2012
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