New Pond Newbie :)

[noahartley]

Hello! After years of watching YouTube videos and dreaming I finally decided to pull the trigger on a pond in my backyard. Main goal was to figure out what I didn't know, if that makes sense, and boy do I have questions! First I will answer the basics so I don't get in trouble.

Water Parameters (API Master FW Kit)
PH - 6.8-7.0
Ammonia - .25ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Nitrate - 0ppm
(API) 5 in 1 Test Stips
GH - 0-30ppm
KH - 0-40ppm (I think both of these are closer to zero but I don't trust these strips)

Water temp hits about 86F most of the day and drops to about 75 at night, but I have really only measured the surface of the water, it is currently about 12-14 inches deep, any good cheap thermometers for the deep parts?

I am in North Carolina, US, Zone 7b if that matters.

I have done zero water changes because the pond has only been up and running for about a week, planning to do one soon. I filled the lower basin up with treated tap water (Seachem 7.0 Neutral Regulator), and have since added a sprinkling of the NR one more time after heavy rain just to keep the ph balanced.

I think I am gonna catch some heat for this but I have no idea how many gallons my pond is, would love some help here. I really just started digging and didn't look back. I am estimating 1000 gallons ish, but recognize I need a more exact idea before I can move forward with more fish and other things. Hoping the pics will help, I am right at 6ft tall for reference.

I added one small bluegill (1.5") to help with the army of mosquito larvae but he is super skittish and not sure if he will be enough. Might add some mosquitofish in the meantime to help, but I'm not sure. They will most likely succumb to the bluegill if he makes it. I am thinking once the water level is at the top where I eventually want it, and I feel more comfortable managing it, I would like to add more small bluegill but that might be a terrible idea. I am not quite sure how aggressive they are towards one another, and I have heard they eat their young. Other option is catch the bream after a while, and put a different native species in there. I am very interested in Flagfish but am also open to suggestions. I do not want goldfish or Koi. No disrespect, just not my thing! Also, what are the chances a large green frog/bullfrog could catch the bream? I know they eat everything but are they effective hunters underwater in y'all's experience?

My temporary method of water movement and filtration is an Eco-worthy 196GPH Solar Water Fountain and some small floating solar fountains. I recognize this is not nearly enough for any major bioload, but I am hoping it will work while I finish the pond the way I want. Right now it is just shooting up and displacing water. My next idea is to hook it up to the bottom of that barrel and attempt an upflow bog in a barrel. The first test filled the barrel up in about 5 minutes with the solar pump which I think is good? But that was without the media. I know that I am going to have to eventually look towards a much larger solar setup with batteries so it can run over night, or run electrical out there and just get a real pump. That is last resort for me. I would honestly rather have solar with fewer fish and a ton of plants than electrical with a lot of fish, but I don't know if the former is an option. This is my main area of unawareness. Please help lol

I have several species of plants in the pond currently. Most are typical pond plants (Pickerelweed, Cattail, Water primrose, water hyacinth, the forbidden duckweed, salvia minima) but I also bare rooted a bunch of Irises, Taro (elephant ear), and Canna lilly in hopes they will work as well. No idea to be honest. Everything is in early stages and wimpy right now, but I am hoping for a lush overgrown vibe in the coming months and years. I would really like to rely on plants to help maintain my water. Not super interested in perfectly clear water, I just want it to be healthy for the fishes and the frogs. Will any of these plants be issues? Most of them are in pots and gravel.

Also is my French drain usable? lol. I don't think I will have groundwater issues. But I wanted a way to see and potentially siphon any water that might be gathering underneath the pond. It is hard to see, but in the dirty photo (he he) you can vaguely see the vertical pipe that then connects to a horizontal pipe (covered with pebbles) with some holes drilled all around it. All of that is underneath the pond. I was thinking that I would just check that pipe periodically and if I see any water I'll siphon it out. But I'm a 5th grader here so...

This last question is a bit more of aesthetic one. I would like to cover up the liner as much as possible. I am realizing now I dug a hole a bit too vertical but its too late for that. I also am sourcing my rocks locally so I don't have access to massive large flat stones like I would like. I am fine with liner showing under the planned water line (2-3 inches below the perimeter rocks) but I would love a way to cover up the liner in between the water line and the perimeter rocks on the surface. I saw Serpadesign using expanding foam and cramming gravel/sand into whole it cures, but I am worried that it might just be more of a mess than an effective cover up. I also already put some water in the pond like an idiot, but I could drain it a good bit, apply the foam, and then complete the water change I need to do anyways. I am just not sure. Any ideas?

Sorry for all the words, thank you all for your help!!

 

[JRS]

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Lisak1]

Here's a quick answer to your edging question - remove all those rocks and dig another shelf approximately 8-12 inches deep (shallow enough that your rocks are still 4-6 inches above water at least) and wide enough to hold your rocks. Then place your rocks on the shelf and roll your liner BEHIND the rock on the land side to create your edging. Now your water level will be correct and no liner will be showing.

Someone who's good with the illustration could draw it for you if you're a more visual person. Essentially though a pond needs two levels of shelves, not just one, all the way around.

The foam idea sounds messy, terrible, and not a good long term solution to be honest.

 

[Lisak1]

Also - forget about water changes. No need. It's an outdated idea in the pond world.

 

[noahartley]

Also - forget about water changes. No need. It's an outdated idea in the pond world

Good to know! Who wants them anyways!

As for the pond edge, I do like that idea, but I might wait until next year. I appreciate your input on the foam, it does sound messy!

 

[Mmathis]

How big is the pond (gallons, depth)? Do you have any other fish besides the bluegill? Are you planning for any other fish, such as goldfish?

 

[noahartley]

How big is the pond (gallons, depth)? Do you have any other fish besides the bluegill? Are you planning for any other fish, such as goldfish?

I am unsure of both the gallons and the future inhabitants, those are two of my main questions to the community tbh.

The depth will be 24" eventually, but I am keeping the water level about 8-10" below that to make it easier to work on right now.

 

[GBBUDD]

I guess im an odd ball is thought it would be best to ask questions before I built the pond.

Water Parameters (API Master FW Kit)
PH - 6.8-7.0
Ammonia - .25ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Nitrate - 0ppm
(API) 5 in 1 Test Stips
GH - 0-30ppm
KH - 0-40ppm (I think both of these are closer to zero but I don't trust these strips

While 7 is nice and neutral one good rain and you can have your ph plumbing quickly into the acid side of the scale killing your fish. Bump your kh up to a 120 but you need to do this slowly. This is done with baking soda.

Get rid of the strips your right they are not reliable. Api liquid is the standard. You'll want all the same tests you had with the strips.

You have introduced several plants species that will over grow your pond before you can say rumplestill.... cat tails, and pick rill will need to be watched closely in your area im betting you on the line to zone 8.

Listen to Lisa dig the shelf around the pond.
The foam is viable but underwater don't worry about sand and gravel on it the algae will make it all look the same. Yes this is outside the pond but it is a solid slution to lock rocks in place its not mortar but an easily solution for laymem

 

[noahartley]

I guess im an odd ball is thought it would be best to ask questions before I built the pond.


While 7 is nice and neutral one good rain and you can have your ph plumbing quickly into the acid side of the scale killing your fish. Bump your kh up to a 120 but you need to do this slowly. This is done with baking soda.

Get rid of the strips your right they are not reliable. Api liquid is the standard. You'll want all the same tests you had with the strips.

You have introduced several plants species that will over grow your pond before you can say rumplestill.... cat tails, and pick rill will need to be watched closely in your area im betting you on the line to zone 8.

Listen to Lisa dig the shelf around the pond.
The foam is viable but underwater don't worry about sand and gravel on it the algae will make it all look the same. Yes this is outside the pond but it is a solid slution to lock rocks in place its not mortar but an easily solution for laymem

Great to know, Baking soda will be added then! The strips I got for free so I am glad I didn't waste any money on them.

Will the plants still grow as voraciously if they are all in pots?

Thanks!

 

[GBBUDD]

No but that's the point to control their growth. And you plant them i. Gravel peastone or no larger than 3/4 NO SOIL this way plants absorbing the water for food not soil

 

[ADHDiy_Guy]

To calculate your gallons, go get a tape measure and measure the length and width and depth of the top level, multiply those numbers together, and then multiply the length width and depth of the bottom level, and add that number to the first number. Now you have the cubic feet of your pond, multiply that by 7.48 (or 7.49?) because that’s how many gallons are in a cubic foot. Now you have an estimate of your pond capacity.

As for your concern about the French drain, and water getting under your liner - the easiest way to prevent that other than having your French drain channel out somewhere lower than under your pond, is to put rocks on the bottom of the pond. Rocks weigh more than water per volume, so if you get more of those flat stones and create a floor with them, as well as having your pond full of water should keep the hydrostatic pressure from creating a bubble under your liner.

Your bluegill will certainly eat the mosquitofish, but mosquitofish are incredibly hardy otherwise and could be a good choice while your pond is finding its balance since your solar pumps might only turn the pond over once or twice a day, vs the typical recommended 1-3x per hour. This might not provide enough oxygenation for some fish, but mosquitofish can survive in some unsavory conditions.

I’m with Lisak1 on the liner edge, it is a lot easier when you have tall rocks sitting in the “shelf” that are leaning on the outside walls, and the lip they create above the water line can be used as a bumper for river rock and gravel to keep it from falling down into the pond, or you can fold the liner up against the back of the rock and push dirt against it to pinch it in place above your water line, then you can plant around the pond in the dirt because you won’t have a foot of liner perimeter. Think about it like you sitting on a couch. You sit on the seat cushion, and lean back against the backrest, and your shoulders and head are above the top of the backrest - you don’t sit on top of the backrest frame with your feet on the seat cushions - if you did your wife would get mad at you!!! Jk, kinda

Here is a guide I found on Pinterest that I feel like you could do from your current liner state. The top right image could use your flat stones, just pull back the liner and dig a shallow ledge, so you don’t sink the flat stones under the water level. I personally would try and find some bigger round boulders, to create some visual interest and break up the flat stone all the way around, but you can decide that based on what’s available to you.

 

[ADHDiy_Guy]

Also, here is a video I made of a technique to build up a rock wall on your pond shelves using round cobble stones with pea gravel as backfill to lock them in place, this technique wouldn’t push the rocks too far into your pond so you wouldn’t cut into your water volume that much and mine have held up really well even when I was digging around on top of them while planting, but I don’t know that I would step on the cobblestone with my full body weight without it being topped with flagstone or something to disperse the weight.

 

[Lisak1]

That's a great demo of the backfill method - and with larger boulders it will absolutely lock them in place.

 

[GBBUDD]

To calculate your gallons, go get a tape measure and measure the length and width and depth of the top level, multiply those numbers together, and then multiply the length width and depth of the bottom level, and add that number to the first number. Now you have the cubic feet of your pond, multiply that by 7.48 (or 7.49?) because that’s how many gallons are in a cubic foot. Now you have an estimate of your pond capacity.

As for your concern about the French drain, and water getting under your liner - the easiest way to prevent that other than having your French drain channel out somewhere lower than under your pond, is to put rocks on the bottom of the pond. Rocks weigh more than water per volume, so if you get more of those flat stones and create a floor with them, as well as having your pond full of water should keep the hydrostatic pressure from creating a bubble under your liner.

Your bluegill will certainly eat the mosquitofish, but mosquitofish are incredibly hardy otherwise and could be a good choice while your pond is finding its balance since your solar pumps might only turn the pond over once or twice a day, vs the typical recommended 1-3x per hour. This might not provide enough oxygenation for some fish, but mosquitofish can survive in some unsavory conditions.

I’m with Lisak1 on the liner edge, it is a lot easier when you have tall rocks sitting in the “shelf” that are leaning on the outside walls, and the lip they create above the water line can be used as a bumper for river rock and gravel to keep it from falling down into the pond, or you can fold the liner up against the back of the rock and push dirt against it to pinch it in place above your water line, then you can plant around the pond in the dirt because you won’t have a foot of liner perimeter. Think about it like you sitting on a couch. You sit on the seat cushion, and lean back against the backrest, and your shoulders and head are above the top of the backrest - you don’t sit on top of the backrest frame with your feet on the seat cushions - if you did your wife would get mad at you!!! Jk, kinda

Here is a guide I found on Pinterest that I feel like you could do from your current liner state. The top right image could use your flat stones, just pull back the liner and dig a shallow ledge, so you don’t sink the flat stones under the water level. I personally would try and find some bigger round boulders, to create some visual interest and break up the flat stone all the way around, but you can decide that based on what’s available to you.

View attachment 168892

Drawing 1 this would be a lot better if the lower boulder was pulled away from the back wall and the boulder on top was stood up wedged between the lower boulder. Maybe some gravel to help build up the second rock a little higher but will still be lower than the top of the first rock. This will help hold the rocks in place . A very crucial design as the last thing anyone wants is a kid in the pond they grab onto a top rock and it topples over on them holding them under.
Also everyone of these drawings do not show a berm around the edges on the outside of the pond this too is crucial.

I'm nit picking here but if someone directs these as this is what I should do then I'll make mention of a few things drawing 2 left to right. The big boulder better be sitting on totaly level or even leaned back toward the outside edge of the pond as sides do fail at times under the weight. So if they are leaning back just a little your much better off.
3 as soon as a little evaporation occurs you'll be looking at your liner it's advised you have a foot deep shelf so you don't need to full your pond everyday. Or add a cistern or automatic water replacement system and theres no issues with this shelves.
4 and 5 can work but with that much of a pitch it's going to probably be problematic trying to hold back the rocks and gravel. koi especially loved to root in the rocks and carry them constantly moving everything.
And 6 if that small a rock is used to hold back that much rock and gravel it won't be long before it fails if th er e was a rock wall coming up from below then maybe this would work but the same principles apply the lower rock comes up higher than the rock above so it helps lock it in place.

 

[GBBUDD]

Also, here is a video I made of a technique to build up a rock wall on your pond shelves using round cobble stones with pea gravel as backfill to lock them in place, this technique wouldn’t push the rocks too far into your pond so you wouldn’t cut into your water volume that much and mine have held up really well even when I was digging around on top of them while planting, but I don’t know that I would step on the cobblestone with my full body weight without it being topped with flagstone or something to disperse the weight.

Dry stack walls are an art all in them selves. Doing so with river rocks is even more challenging. Great diy on how to lock them with peastone.

I have built within my pond with 2000 plus pound boulders. Have built limitedly with large round river rock such as this video, as I said it is an art and requires a lot of time and flipping and trying one spot to find it works better in an other. But river rock or not that's building with rock lots of flipping lots of rejections to find the right one.
I seem to be the only one still promoting waterfall foam. I'm 250 plus and I walk all over my pond inside and out. While I admire the job that was done in the video. It is realy only locking in 3 dimensions up down and back. Its weakness is in toward the pond and if stepped on and with a smallest of twists time and time again this can set the rocks even tighter or the wall fails and will need rebuilding.
So back to myself walking all over my pond. Before packing in the peastone on the back side as quick spray with foam will form around the rock between them under them and in doing so just the hug of the foam around the rocks works very well. Its not mortar but in 5 years of climbing all over the areas I did use the foam not one rock has shifted.
Now the foam expands spray with only a little and after 20 minutes or so you'll see areas that got too much and others that need another quick blast.
Now two pro tips anywhere the foam is too much and pushing out if you take some peastone sand or even dirt and throw it at the foam just as it starts to skin over not dry but still sticky . This will hide the foam. Any foam that was just to much was added let it dry it's very easy to trim with a multi tool with nothing more than a scrapper blade.

Again this works but it is by no means ment to be structural and to replace mortar. But go ahead build a little wall and foam it then backfill with the peastone or gravel and watch how incredibly resilient the wall can be in all 4 directions.

Now the video is out of the pond but in or out it does the same job. I'll make a video in the near future of rock and foam in the pond.