New Pond Post From Into Page With PVC Questions

[herzausstahl]

Here is a repost of my post from the Introduction page:

Thanks everyone...I am looking at at least 3' deep across the bottom of the pond with it sloping downward a few inches towards the fence. I am going back and forth on whether or not to have Koi or goldfish (Shebunkin appeal to me) or probably will end up with a mix of both. This year I will only be building it, then adding fish in spring. I was looking at making a Doc Bio Filter and hiding it by the fence. On the fence side I plan on making a small decking that will partially overhang the pond to create some shade since it is in full sun. I won't have a skimmer or bottom drain since I have no mature trees around it, and the drain because I don't want to cut the liner (can retrofit one later if need be). Found a 5000 gph Total Pond pump on ebay that will power the stream and was going to find a smaller pump to run to the filter (one that can handle solids). The stream will begin with a small header pool that will run over a stepped falls (to help avoid water loss from a tall falls). The stream I was going to take Addie's advice from other threads and make it at least 10" deep, probably closer to 12" and 2' to 2 1/2' wide. It should be around 30' or so long coming down the slope. I was going to use 2" Flex PVC so I don't have to worry about burying the pipes below the frost line (I am in all clay and don't want to have to do a 3' pipe trench). Does anyone have any experience with Flex PVC? They advertised that it can freeze solid without breaking, which not sure I believed, but the water drains down to pond water in the pipe when turned off correct? The whole pipe run with the exception of the top portion that would go into the header pool would be run at an up elevation so everything should drain down. I should have extra so if it froze at the pond level and busted I could replace that portion and couple it together and then remove the ends in winter. Does anyone leave their pumps at the bottom of their pond through cold weather? Sorry for the long reply, will repost this in the newbie pond section.

 

[addy1]

Our pipes drain dry due to our slope if yours do you should be fine.

I don't see why you could not leave your pump in the bottom of the pond during winter, you just do not want it to freeze.

My stream varied in depth and width, but I made sure it was at least 10 inches deep.

 

[j.w]

You guys get much colder then we here in Wa. but I would think that as long as the bottom of the pond does not freeze all would be well. On the fish you want to get, I prefer the goldies and the shubbies cuz the koi like to rearrange the furniture too much...........meaning all your plants in pots and floating ones too...........and they will eat them all also. They are beautiful fish and get really large and if you don't mind keeping all your plants corralled up somehow it can work. If you have a bog w/ lots of plants and floating rings w/ netting underneath that can be helpful also.

 

[herzausstahl]

Thanks Addy,
The pipes should mirror the stream and should be on a slope the whole way down. Not as big a slope as yours but a good 2-3' elevation difference. I was going to hide the pipe in the rocks so it will slip just over the top of the liner as it enters the pond. I'm glad I checked your build because otherwise my stream would have been too shallow. And the pumps will both be located at the very bottom of the pond. What do you use to keep a hole in the ice for yours? I am looking at using either an aerator or another pump because I've seen a few posts on here with people using heaters and getting water loss due to evaporation as a result.

JW,
That was the other reason I was thinking of avoiding the Koi (aside for the excessive waste), is so I could add plants to it and not have to worry about them rearranging or feasting on them.

Ideally I was thinking of trying to situate the bottom 10' of the stream with its own reservoir pool at the top so I could put a lower volume, lower voltage pump on a shelf about 18" under water (so it wouldn't circulate the lower hibernation depths) and run a tube up the stream in winter. This way it should keep the stream opening free of ice, I would only have a 10' run to keep free of ice dams, and then I would get to enjoy the effect of a running stream in winter. And if I was lucky the rest of the pond would freeze over, get covered in snow which would be a great insulator blanket for the rest of the pond. Do you see any problems with my theories?

 

[addy1]

Thanks Addy,
The pipes should mirror the stream and should be on a slope the whole way down. Not as big a slope as yours but a good 2-3' elevation difference. I was going to hide the pipe in the rocks so it will slip just over the top of the liner as it enters the pond. I'm glad I checked your build because otherwise my stream would have been too shallow. And the pumps will both be located at the very bottom of the pond. What do you use to keep a hole in the ice for yours? I am looking at using either an aerator or another pump because I've seen a few posts on here with people using heaters and getting water loss due to evaporation as a result.



JW,
That was the other reason I was thinking of avoiding the Koi (aside for the excessive waste), is so I could add plants to it and not have to worry about them rearranging or feasting on them.

Ideally I was thinking of trying to situate the bottom 10' of the stream with its own reservoir pool at the top so I could put a lower volume, lower voltage pump on a shelf about 18" under water (so it wouldn't circulate the lower hibernation depths) and run a tube up the stream in winter. This way it should keep the stream opening free of ice, I would only have a 10' run to keep free of ice dams, and then I would get to enjoy the effect of a running stream in winter. And if I was lucky the rest of the pond would freeze over, get covered in snow which would be a great insulator blanket for the rest of the pond. Do you see any problems with my theories?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

your pipes should be fine then. Last winter I was not aware I had any fish, but did have 5, it froze over solid. 8 inches at one point, but they had a lot of water for just the five of them. This year I will leave the pumps running until we start to ice up. Then I am going to use just an aerator to keep a hole in the ice, since, with the spawning, I have way more than 5 fish..........lol

The aerator, uses around one light bulb of electricity.

No way will I use a heater, pond too big and no need for my set up.

>>>>>>>>>>>

Well I would never leave it running if you leave town, moving water does freeze nicely if it is cold enough, and you could empty your pond in dead of winter, with just one ice dam.

I love plants that is one reason I have no koi, I do not want to not fuss with saving the plants from the fish. So far a nice balance of fish and nicely growing plants.

To me the goldies and shubunkins are just as pretty.

 

[herzausstahl]

I was thinking of doing that leaving the big ones running until it gets cold enough to freeze, then I would turn both off, empty the filter (so it wouldn't freeze, Doc Bio Filter), and drop in the "winter pump", just a weaker/cheaper waterfall pump. I think I would have an aerator also, because yes I wouldn't want it to drain out, also the reason why I would only have it halfway down, so then I would at least have half the water left. Then I would have to bucket brigade to fill it, but that's also why I wanna try it all before I add fish. Again I have lots of time to over think it all while I dig, since I'm doing it by hand and in clay, plus I have a 3 year old who slows down my progress. I wouldn't let it go if we went out of town, I was gonna look for an aerator to use in that case. I have seen somewhere that some people use the ones from fish stores and then cover it with an irrigation box to protect it from the elements. What kind of fish do you have in yours?

 

[HARO]

Herz, would I be correct in assuming your Wisconsin winters would be a bit colder than ours here in Ontario? Remember that temperature stratification is reversed in winter, with the warmest water at the bottom of the pond. Running a pump or aerator in extreme cold can result in the bottom water becoming too cold for your fish. I've always used a stock tank de-icer to open a hole in the ice when it's been frozen over for a few days. This lets any noxious gases escape, and I seldom lose any fish. These de-icers are rated at 1500W, but I only run it for about 10 hours a week. Good luck with your pond! John

 

[herzausstahl]

John,
What zone are you in? I would think you'd have similar if not colder weather than I do. The pump would only be halfway down or less (18" in a 3'-4' pond) so I would only be recirculating the top to middle layer of water and leave the lower part alone. I could even put it only 12" down. It would be to create a hole in the ice and get just 10' of the stream flowing in winter for the effect. I know I would have to check that portion that had flowing water for ice dams, also wanted the pump shallower so if I did miss an ice dam it wouldn't drain the pond. My other pumps would be shut off in winter. And if I did use an aerator it would only be 12" under the water level just so it could move the surface water. Any holes in the plan? Also I wasn't planning on adding fish until spring, so I can experiment this winter with overwintering the pond.
Thanks,
Nathan

 

[HARO]

Herz; We're considered a zone 5 here in southern Ontario. Depending on your location, you would be either a zone 3 or 4. You seem to be taking great pains to make sure your set-up works, so it's just something else to consider. John

 

[addy1]

What kind of fish do you have in yours?

Goldfish and shubunkins, they don't mind being left out during the winter and are just less fussy fish. This is big white mama and a shubie next to her. Not a real sharp picture but they are down around 4 feet.

 

[herzausstahl]

Thanks John,
I'm pretty much the same as you are. I'm right on the border of zone 4 and 5. I was gonna put the pump about 15-18" down so I would only disturb the middle layer of water and only in a 1/3 of the pond. Thanks for the advice.

Addy,
Thanks for the pictures, I was wondering if the shubunkins would pretty much take on the appearance of Koi, but a little bit smaller and without all the mess.

Nathan

 

[fishin4cars]

If you want your comets to really take on the look of miniature Koi, stock evenly shubunkin, sarrasa, and regular comets.
here are some fish to watch for that will really give you that look.
shubunkins, get one that is got red, black and blue, look for a blue with a lot of small spots, they will end up looking peppered, also look for ones with good red and black, No white, these REALLY stand out when they get large if they will stay that way.
sarassas, (red and white) make sure and look for one that is well marked but also look for a tancho, white with just the red circle on the head, be sure and look for red lips and also ones that have a white face with RED eyes, as they get larger the red eyes really pop
Comets, a good orange with long fins a white, and if you can find one a black.
There are also double tails, Hibuna, and some new variations always showing up if you watch for them.
Here is a great link to different types and coloration's so you can get a good idea of good quality ones and what to be on the look out for. many of these can be found mixed in some large shipments so be sure and watch all your local dealers because you never know what you may find hidden in a new shipment.

 

[addy1]

Thanks John,

Addy,
Thanks for the pictures, I was wondering if the shubunkins would pretty much take on the appearance of Koi, but a little bit smaller and without all the mess.

Nathan

The gold and black one to the right, when you see it in real life, it looks like those koi that the scales really stand out, it shines when the sun hits it. This one is a) a goldie :regular_waving_emot a mix of goldie and shubie. It is one of the new fry this year. They are about 4 feet down.

There is another one that is following the pattern gold and back markings, just beautiful and tons of very pretty shubunkin babies

View attachment 6900