New Pond Project in Arizona: Opinions needed on Filtration schematic

[ScottM]

Thanks in advance to all who reply. I am starting to plan a koi pond project and I live in a hot/dry climate so filtration will be key to keeping the pond clear. I am thinking along the lines of a 10 x 20 pond with a max depth of 6' in one area--so likely 5-6K gallons. I am also going to have a raised bog (8 x 10) with a stream/falls that empties back in to pond. The area for the pond has no trees so not much waste on surface, but I am in a windy area so I am thinking a skimmer--also a bottom drain. So my question as I try to diagram a plan: I am thinking the skimmer is opposite the bog, but do I run the bottom drain to the skimmer, and then pump both back to the undergravel bog matrix? Or is the skimmer a separate circuit and pump? I haven't found a plan online or a design for the skimmer/bottom drain combo?? I have a clean slate, no budget issues, and just want to do it right. I also have a couples months working form home?!?!

Thanks in advance

 

[addy1]

Welcome to our forum!

I had a pond in AZ years ago. Filtered only with a bog and it did great. My bog was around 30 feet or so from the pond. It waterfalled into a stream that then entered the pond. I did not have a bottom drain, still don't. I use external pumps, I drew water from the skimmer and a pipe in the pond. Used a T to split the draw from the skimmer and pond.

I prefer external pumps, others prefer submersibles.

 

[JRS]

Welcome!

 

[GBBUDD]

Welcome
A couple thoughts for you while skimming the surface i feel is a must im not so sold on a skimmer though it has its advantages. There are two other options one is called a negative edge " my choice if i was to do it again. and a zero edge .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_4mpaH-LtU now the skimmer has a basket or net and can have a mesh filter . the zero edge if the wind blows hard enough and you have a smaller pump with a large opening the leaves etc can get blown out into the pond but fish can swim right through the area no worries. The negative edge water falls over a edge a couple inches below and has no filters per say but you can pull out the leaves etc from the rocks a bit more maintenance but......
The main drain for most codes today require two and they both have to handle the pumps pull alone so no one gets stuck in a suction under water. DO NOT TAKE MY WORDS AS LAW YOU NEED TO LOOK UP YOUR AREAS LAWS.. OK DISCLAIMER ASIDE... if you have ever seen the snorkel and centipede from aquascape i was thinking this would be great for anyone who really wanted a bottom drain but was uncomfortable putting holes in the liner.. Here's my thought when you did the pond dig out a vertical shaft into the side of the pond large enough to house the snorkel do the same in the bottom of the pond for the centipede to where it will be completely below the bottom of the pond fill around it and over it with stone that will not get sucked into it . now you wouldn't have to use snorkels and centipedes as they do get pricey but you could make your own from pvc pipe . CUTTING SLOTS IN THE HORIZONTAL TUBE ALONG THE WAY . i did this trench idea with my fish caves and placed flat rocks over the top the fish definitely love it . it's about 2 foot wide and 3 plus feet deep. the other thing out in az is you will need to paint any exposed piping i guess the uv out there can do a number on it quickly.
Skimmer and drain in my opinion should be separate or at least have a way of limiting how much pull can be applied by the pump . For example the skimmers work best at x pull particularly with the HELIX skimmer as you need so much pressure pulling down on the floating cup that keeps skimming right at the top of the water. so without a way to limit or increase it wouldn't work as good as it could.

 

[ScottM]

Welcome to our forum!

I had a pond in AZ years ago. Filtered only with a bog and it did great. My bog was around 30 feet or so from the pond. It waterfalled into a stream that then entered the pond. I did not have a bottom drain, still don't. I use external pumps, I drew water from the skimmer and a pipe in the pond. Used a T to split the draw from the skimmer and pond.

I prefer external pumps, others prefer submersibles.

Thank You. I am glad to hear that you were successful with a bog filter with the summers that we have here. Appreciate the feedback.

 

[ScottM]

Welcome
A couple thoughts for you while skimming the surface i feel is a must im not so sold on a skimmer though it has its advantages. There are two other options one is called a negative edge " my choice if i was to do it again. and a zero edge .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_4mpaH-LtU now the skimmer has a basket or net and can have a mesh filter . the zero edge if the wind blows hard enough and you have a smaller pump with a large opening the leaves etc can get blown out into the pond but fish can swim right through the area no worries. The negative edge water falls over a edge a couple inches below and has no filters per say but you can pull out the leaves etc from the rocks a bit more maintenance but......
The main drain for most codes today require two and they both have to handle the pumps pull alone so no one gets stuck in a suction under water. DO NOT TAKE MY WORDS AS LAW YOU NEED TO LOOK UP YOUR AREAS LAWS.. OK DISCLAIMER ASIDE... if you have ever seen the snorkel and centipede from aquascape i was thinking this would be great for anyone who really wanted a bottom drain but was uncomfortable putting holes in the liner.. Here's my thought when you did the pond dig out a vertical shaft into the side of the pond large enough to house the snorkel do the same in the bottom of the pond for the centipede to where it will be completely below the bottom of the pond fill around it and over it with stone that will not get sucked into it . now you wouldn't have to use snorkels and centipedes as they do get pricey but you could make your own from pvc pipe . CUTTING SLOTS IN THE HORIZONTAL TUBE ALONG THE WAY . i did this trench idea with my fish caves and placed flat rocks over the top the fish definitely love it . it's about 2 foot wide and 3 plus feet deep. the other thing out in az is you will need to paint any exposed piping i guess the uv out there can do a number on it quickly.
Skimmer and drain in my opinion should be separate or at least have a way of limiting how much pull can be applied by the pump . For example the skimmers work best at x pull particularly with the HELIX skimmer as you need so much pressure pulling down on the floating cup that keeps skimming right at the top of the water. so without a way to limit or increase it wouldn't work as good as it could.

Thanks for the great suggestions. I think that the zero edge is a great idea and I am definitely going to take a hard look at that--I also like the Helix skimmer as a way to skim and not lose the wildlife that is usually associated with a skimmer. Code is not an issue where I live but I wonder if 2 bottom drains would be more effective/efficient for a pond this size?? I do agree that separating the circuits would make sense, especially with the Helix, to keep the flow consistent. So much to think about, but with no time or budget constraints, I want to make sure that this is planned correctly.

 

[GBBUDD]

You have a great pool of advice here on this site to pull from. What is my favorite may not be for someone else and that's fine I like bog filters totally sold on it. others prefer a sterile environment. my suggestion to you is put step by step on a piece of paper for your design and post it here others can add or advice on there experience like addy who had a pond out your way. Good luck.